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Finicum Shooter Protection Bill Points to Wider Issue of Government Distrust

Lavoy executed
Protecting the identity of the officer who shot LaVoy Finicum is evidently more of a priority to Oregon State Police and politicians than ensuring unfettered public scrutiny.

“State Rep. Jeff Barker has introduced a bill that would temporarily delay the release of the name of the officer who shot [LaVoy] Finicum,” KOIN 6 News reported Sunday. “House Bill 4087 already unanimously passed the Oregon House Judiciary Committee.”

The bill, which will allow law enforcement to petition a judge for a 90-day stay on releasing the name of an officer, was introduced after the Oregon State Police said it had “received death threats from all over the U.S.” Barker, a Democrat, said he took the action after being convinced by OSP Superintendent Rich Evans that ‘there is a real safety concern.”

Perhaps. But if that’s the case, it’s fair to ask if there are alternatives in terms of investigation and protective custody options that would make it unnecessary to suppress information that’s in the public interest to know. Plus, how do we know the “threats” are even real and not coming from provocateurs or other interested parties?

We know that the powers that be are desperately trying to bolster a false, government-started narrative that “rightwing extremists are a greater threat than ISIS.” And if you want to see violent death wishes leveled with promiscuous abandon, just look at comments on ”progressive” websites ginning up the mob against the Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupiers. Plus, let’s not forget the only killing so far was committed by an agent of the state.

So it’s hardly out of line to wonder if we’re being told everything about the alleged “threats,” or to expect those bringing us the news of Barker’s bill to assign some investigative reporters.  After all, being watchdogs on behalf of liberty is supposedly a duty of a free press. But outrageously, establishment media in too many cases willingly wears the collar of lapdogs.

It’s a tricky enough question without all the causes for doubt. What rises to the level of a threat that will trigger such an order, and how will that impact investigations into and disclosures about relevant past conduct and disciplinary issues regarding the involved officer? Why shouldn’t this be regarded as government circling the wagons?

Assessing the politician behind the bill is tricky as well. Barker is a retired police officer who has been “rated 100%by the National Rifle Association.” That said, Obama for America included him in its “Support from Oregonians” list, and NRA has characterized Obama as “the most anti-gun president in history.” So either NRA is being bipolar, or giving aid and comfort to the enemy is not something they want their members to consider when heeding their political ratings.

In any case, trust, as far as OSP’s and FBI’s handling of the Finicum killing, is, no pun intended, shot as far as the Patriot community is concerned. That said, everyone who considers himself an Oath Keeper does not do so, as the collectivists lie, because they are “anti-government,” but because of fidelity to the Constitution.

As much as some are convinced the soundless aerial footage of Finicum’s death is all the evidence they need to convict those involved of murder, our system of justice requires a jury trial, a presumption of innocence, the burden of proof on the prosecution, and a conviction of guilt only when it is beyond a reasonable doubt.

Finicum never received any of those things, some will no doubt argue back.

Assume for a moment that some of the threats precipitating Barker’s bill are real, and further that they’re credible. That means those making them are convinced that action outside the Constitution, with no checks and balances outside of force they bring to bear, is acceptable. Just remember, the Constitution was established first and foremost to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. If those threatening to initiate force can take it on themselves to deny due process to anyone, then that’s who they’ll be able to do that to.

I’d say a full-blown and very public investigation of the “threats” that convinced Barker to introduce his legislative band-aid in the first place is just as important, if not more so, than the bill itself. With all the reasons government has given us to distrust its actions and intentions, some of us are going to need a bit more than a cry of alarm from the Oregon State Police, and a knee-jerk “solution” from “progressive” Oregon politicians led by a supposedly “pro-gun” Obama supporter.

UPDATE: I no sooner got done posting this than I received an alert from Oregon Firearms Federation noting:

The deciding vote to pass this [anti-gun] bill out of committee was cast by Chair Jeff Barker, who in the past has been a supporter of gun rights. Not only was he the deciding vote to move the bill to the full House for a vote, he was the deciding vote against an amendment that would have provided a small degree of protection to the victims of domestic violence.

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DavidC

David Codrea blogs at The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance (WarOnGuns.com), and is a field editor/columnist for GUNS Magazine. Named “Journalist of the Year” in 2011 by the Second Amendment Foundation for his groundbreaking work on the “Fast and Furious” ATF “gunwalking” scandal, he is a frequent event speaker and guest on national radio and television programs.

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134 comments

  1. “I’d say a full-blown and very public investigation of the “threats” that convinced Barker to introduce his legislative band-aid in the first place is just as important, if not more so, than the bill itself. With all the reasons government has given us to distrust its actions and intentions, some of us are going to need a bit more than a cry of alarm from the Oregon State Police, and a knee-jerk “solution” from “progressive” Oregon politicians led by a supposedly “pro-gun” Obama supporter.”

    I agree!

    1. You know when the state starts keeping things secret that should be transparent and open to its citizens ,its starting something very wrong and very dangerous. Just look at Argentina back a few yrs. ago. The people that voiced opposition to its government were disappearing by the thousands never to be heard from again. So I don’t think hiding information from the public is in the best interest of all. Beside LEO’s have weapons to protect themselves, only other reason I can see is that OSP are covering up their wrong doing . with total disregard for transparency and accountability to the public.

      1. Oregon has always had too many weirdoes. Now they’re staffing some sheriff departments. That’s just an open invitation for the feds to come in and do as they wish. I’ve watched the Finicum killing several times; looks like an ambush to me.

    2. Is Oath Keepers aware that there are TWO videos out there? The original one shows the truth…Lavoy’s vehicle being shot at with holes in the windows…Levoy grabbing a wound with his left hand and falling to the ground…the second video has been altered. The date is the day AFTER the shooting, “Lavoy” reaching into his jacket while spinning around to the left??

      1. Theres a video of oswald at a coffee shop during jfk’s visit, but I misplaced the link, so you know, you just have to take my word for it.

    3. David, I just have to tell you that I lived in Burns for 17 years and moved back to the Willamette Valley in 1993. I had all 4 of my tires slashed on my vehicle four times and my boyfriends house was spray painted with vulgar words. This went on for about a year untill we ourselves caught the person. It was reported to the police every time. I know this is hard to understand unless you have lived in Burns. But, this is how they operate. They take sides. What happened to me was all because I was going through a divorce. A friend of mine worked as a supervisor at the mill and she had to fire someone and her car got keyed. There is no where to hide in that town. People all know where you are all the time. I would have to guess the police records there are full of slashed tires. If someone slashed Grasty’s or Ward’s wives tires, I know it was someone who lived there and does not like them. Oh and by the way Grasty was the Auto Parts guy at NAPA when I lived there. He was the guy that stood behind the counter and waited on customers. I just don’t think he has the education to back up all these positions he has appointed himself.

  2. In Burns, I’m convinced any treats to the sheriff or citizens came from government provocateurs. In the case of the Levoy’s murder they had to figure out a way to keep the officers identities secret. So they used legislative action. If the treats were real they probably came from somebody who had the contact information for officers which is not going to be accessible to the average person. I see them trying to cover up the fact that the shooters were mercenaries employed by who knows who.

    1. ….a black guy gets murdered by cops and the cops name and address is splattered all over the news, a white guy whose conservative gets ambushed and executed and we silence the legal system to prevent justice for the victim and family……I smell contract killers and that is what they want to keep hidden from the public…remember: 9x

    2. Keith, it is quite obvious the shooter was employed by your own government ? does it really matter which bogus agency ?

      Beyond all that , Barker is a turd status quo shill if ever there was one, here in Oregon. .Nothing new at all here in Oregon, especially on the west side. He has shown his true colors I imagine in spades ! A special law for a criminal act to protect a bad act by your own government. It is the new normal if allowed to stand.

      1. “does it really matter which bogus agency ?”

        Yes, it does. It’s bad enough if it was the OSP or FBI who denied Mr. Finicum his day in court, and I’m not particularly fond of donning tin foil, but there are assertions by far too many that a military contractor like Blackwater was involved. Some with very tight tin foil hats are even saying United Nations or even foreign troops were involved. Frankly there is simply way too much funny business going on around King Barry, and I hate to admit it, but I wouldn’t put anything past him and the progressive-communists. If France, the UN, Blackwater, or other military contractor was involved then heads will have to roll, trials be held for the traitors like they so quickly do to us for the absurdity of jaywalking, and if found guilty they need to hang by their necks for everyone to see.

        1. Probably would be worth the effort to lobby for laws to prohibit the use of contractors for LE activities. Uniform accountability & training. Plus, assures local employment.

    3. Keith : are we to assume that where you wrote ” TREATS ” , you really meant
      ” THREATS ” – !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    4. They certainly have a bunch of shooters to hide. Was it 3, 7 or 9 shots Levoy took? And how many dozens of shots into the truck? Well, they’ve almost had plenty of time to replace all the truck’s panels and more than enough time to get rid of the unmarked, unnamed, heavily armed unknowns we saw in Burns.

    5. The shooters were probably wearing knit face covers. The Governor was on the phone to Jarrett and lynch, according to local newspaper accounts. Ron Wyden and Jeffie Merkel (merkely) rushed out to media to call the occupiers a “Virus” that they didn’t want spread, completely uninterested in the issues, resolving the situation or making any effort to offer anything positive. It’s amazing that we see Police Officers being put on trial for the death of street criminals and thugs, their faces plastered all over media for months, yet here we have an obvious premeditated murder, and the sick liberal Oregon legislators bust their a$$es to cover up the crime. The liberals just pick and choose how to protect their own. Shameful, and this creep, barker is an excellent example of the losers and partisan elites have taken over the whole State. No conservatives have any input into the government in Oregon. Sad but true….little San Francisco.

    6. If everything was done as the FBI states then why withhold Lavoy’s autopsy (number of bullet holes), the truck (number of bullet holes and/or rubber bullet impacts), Cox’s video, dash and body cams that we know had to be there (did the governor previously sign a law requiring body cams?) and what is this 2 second discrepancy in the areal video?
      Ghost military analysis of shooting, the video has been edited at 39:40 (39:40 remains on time stamp for over 2 seconds and there is a jump in the video). Are they hiding FLIR video? https://youtu.be/LPlN1rulVv0 Unfortunately you need to play the Aerial video separately: https://youtu.be/aAGxDWKrjPQ

    7. All records buried and / or sealed is the legacy of the Sandy Hook Elementary School security theater episode. This will be made to disappear entirely, and we can expect a lot more of this kind of thing until we figure out how to punish such behavior.

      The ‘threats’ are likely not even real, just a made-up excuse. Fedgov is not going to tolerate challenges to it’s claimed ‘authority’, so long as it can bring overwhelming force to bear. Look how it ran from the Bundy Ranch and decided to grab him when he went to Portland, and had no support system. It’s just a pay-back for embarrassing the BLM. But, there records of who was assigned to that roadblock, and those will show who the assigned shooters were. They may be gotten via FOIA requests, or perhaps a patriotic ‘leak’ – or hack. But the work detail records do exist. The point of it is that hiding the records behind a ‘wall of law’ means they can escape any kind of culpability for what clearly seems to be a murder on video, and so also escape any need to answer uncomfortable questions about why the state was killing someone for a federal agency, and not even the main leaders of the ‘opposition’ at that.

  3. Whenever I see what this government is doing to it’s own, there is an old country song that comes to mind, ( I can feel it slipping away, slowly, slowly slipping away).
    I prefer it not to be true, but I’m afraid Brother Mike V. is right a civil war is on the horizon.

  4. Imagine that? Why would someone that has no problem with ambushing and murder, not want their names released?

  5. There is no reason to believe any of this is true. We just do not know the source of the threats and indeed with the sophistication of surveillance technology today, those making the threats may be known.
    I am typing at this keyboard now with full knowledge my identity is no secret to any law enforcement agency thinking it be necessary to be known, just as the recent alleging no body cam evidence exists is so beyond credibility as to not be believed.
    It is not beyond consideration cameras were discouraged from being worn because of the danger any evidence from them might prove either the FBI or OSP or other participating agencies to have exceeded the lawful performance of their duties.
    Was there a violation of Robert LaVoy Finicum’s civil rights ? Assuredly there was ! The mob mentality clothed in robes of law enforcement took over on Oregon 395. Just as the pitchfork wielding , torch bearing mobs of agitators on the Internet in many posts are without restraint. There is a notable difference however!
    Law enforcement possesses the aire of authority. We may only hope that the superiors over junior officers are moral men and that the junior officers themselves are also. If either fails this requirement, we are in danger of abuse. It is known that where authority is presumed, actions may follow. Hard experience has shown this to be true as in the Nuremburg trials: “I was only following orders .” It was demonstrated then that orders need not be lawful to be complied with, only an authority behind the command, legitimate or not. It is an error of such gravity that it must not be allowed to take root.
    If Ammon Bundy and the supporters of him are to be examined, if men’s lives may be taken upon a supposition, then law enforcement equally must come under scrutiny that abuses within those ranks not be allowed to fester and grow.
    What confidence do we have that evidence is not being manipulated? Where is the truck? How are we to be assured the threats upon the life of the officer or officers involved are legitimate.
    It appears the narrative is being attempted to be changed. Many of us are not reluctant to say, more than one officer discharged his or her weapon in this engagement of Finicum in a lethal barrage of gunfire. This must not be allowed to happen ! The wolves responsible for the death of the sheep must not be allowed to control the narrative or to dismiss their character as wolves and allege themselves protectors !

    1. So let us bear arms and gather up the perpetraitors (pun intended). These men and those who directed them must be brought to justice now.

  6. It seems that all in charge/control of our fine state of Oregon are 100% Boss Hogg! The sad part is they are in bed with our failing Federal Government.

  7. people with the little big boy syndrome seem to also support the good ole boy program. if the situation evaluation is wrong then lie about it, with the help of the team.

  8. I have 2 questions, one of which was mentioned previously. I have not seen an answer to either of these.

    1. How many bullets penetrated LaVoy’s body?

    2. Why can’t we see the truck?

    1. I too am wanting a solid, reliable, even documented report on how many bullets penetrated LaVoy’s body. I have believed thus far that he was shot by multiple shooters. I hope someone in the family can set the record straight.

      Salute!
      Elias Alias

      1. Elias,

        The attorney for the Finicums issued a public statement that an autopsy had been commissioned by the family but that results were not to be released at this time.
        These were not fleeing felons ! A known point of departure existed that was acknpwledged by the occupiers of the Refuge to be under surveillance. They knew that law enforcement was in the area and apprised of their activities.
        They had a destination that had been advertised and a known purpose for proceeding to that location as well an audience to include the sheriff of grant County. He was in anticipation of receiving them. This too, was known by the assailants of this peaceful group who traveled with assurance they were not to be placed in harms way. Unfortunately, that proved not true.
        Felons, and certainly dangerous felons, do not advertise their presence, position, or intentions.
        Our concern now is to see the Bundys out of prison, their associates also, as well the Hammonds and for the other violations of the BLM, the FWS, and law enforcement in general to cease.
        We must not allow the narrative to become corrupted.
        The travesty that came to be played out on Oregon 395 must not be allowed to be anything than what it is, an over reach and violation of the legitimate purpose of government from the highest levels.

        1. LaVoy was murdered by our government. Period. The shooters should be charged with murder and either be executed themselves or spend the rest of their sorry lives making little rocks out of big rocks. Somehow, someway, these scum should pay the price for their taking LaVoy’s life without due process.

        2. I would like to see if any ‘forensics’ were done on each bullet removed from his corpse …to see exactly how many different ‘shooters’ were involved. I am willing to wager that not ONE of those firearms have the same barrels (but rather) brand new ones (upgrades you know).
          Everything I read on this page points to one, sobering truth. What y’all see happening “in and around” (virtually) relevant to these ‘courses of actions’ has now become “status quo” if not worse. It has gone from ‘bad’ cops shooting civies (just as many whites as blacks too), to (seemingly) the entire government shooting at us (umm, since when did they have ‘carte blanche’ to dub us a terrorists …based upon a “political ideology” of turning the USA into a Muslim-sucking nation).
          I’d imagine this will all (first) go to a court for a ‘redress of grievances’ by the people against the government …after that (which won’t last long at all) …it is anyone’s guess. Lots of short fuses out there burnin’….

      2. Elias,

        I remember that in a previous article the Oath Keepers stated that the location of Lavoy’s truck was known and that it was being closely watched.

        Is that still the case?

        Henk

      3. Elias, have you viewed the you tube video(s) in which Victoria Sharp gives firsthand account of events which transpired that ‘fateful’ afternoon, en route from the Malheur refuge to John Day?

        She was in the back seat of LaVoy’s Dodge pickup, with Ryan Bundy on her left, Shawna Cox on her right, Lavoy driving, and Ryan Payne in the front passenger seat, until he exited the truck at the first “segment” of the stop and surrendered himself into custody without resistance (albeit, after first having a bullet fired at him by one of the several armed men who were training their firearms in the direction of the truck.)

        According to Victoria, essentially from the time the truck came out of that final curve and into view of the roadblock, gunshots began impacting the FRONT & WINDSHIELD, and multiple red laser indicators fell upon her, Ryan, and Shawna.

        Without breaking out every detail, and telling her full account, that was the start of an assault (some might observe, an ambush…) which continued for several minutes, and as the truck slid to a halt in the snowbank, the gunfire continued, being directed at the rear and at the drivers’ side of the vehicle by shooters (not clearly visible in the aerial video footage released by the FBI…)

        As LaVoy exited the truck, the three passengers ducked/covered frantically as best as they could until, at a point, after Victoria and Shawna literally screamed over and over, “We surrender…”, the shooting slowed to a stop…

        Miss Sharp recounts that as she stepped out of the truck, lasers yet trained on her, she saw LaVoy’s blood on the snow, just outside the drivers’ door – a seeming indication that Mr Finicum was wounded either while still at the wheel, or just as he opened the door and stepped out.

        The implications of this seem at once crystal clear, and deeply disturbing when contrasted with the official FBI narrative offered to the public.

        As for the justifiable questions you have proffered, Elias – I quite agree that they deserve to be addressed – soon, and fully aboveboard. However, I humbly suggest one other “dual” question first: (After having seen/heard Miss Sharp and her recounting of things) Is Victoria Sharp believable, and is she telling the truth?!

        Upon viewing and listening, it is your choice to make, and no one else’s. Once you have made your own determination (perhaps weighing the unedited aerial footage in light of different perspective), I would be curious to read your thoughts and reflections on the situation, and where you believe we, as a nation find ourselves …

        As for myself, I have obviously seen/heard all the details she offered in the videos, and it is my carefully measured opinion that, not only is she telling the truth, but also that she is (and presents as) a generally very truthful person. I find little to nothing about her manner that is off-putting, nothing calculating, nothing contrived or phony. In my honest observation, in a court of law she would be an absolutely sterling eyewitness – exactly the sort that would utterly undermine and decimate the opposition’s case.

        It is good for her that she is presently lodged with, & protected by a former active-duty member of our military – one who clearly takes his oath seriously, and will keep it, knowing just what may be at stake

  9. This gov are the domestic terrorists. This is not a constitutional gov, this is not a gov , by the people , for the people. We now fear the gov, the only 3 options are fight, flight or roll over. Can we even consider this a gov anymore or is it something else entirely? They threaten and oppress, they have ignored the constitution , brainwash the youth, judges force people to be “re-educated” – who else did that? This pretend gov supports those who have rioted, burned , pillaged and killed while they murder those who stand in peaceful protest against them, against their tyranny. This is not America anymore and those in dc are not Americas reps. The world is in chaos, ask yourselves why?

    1. Agree on all points Mindy, we now live in a giant criminal enterprise and a corporatocracy created by our own government !and they are simply protecting that corporatocracy and gov power of control mechanisms. and of course calling it all legal and trying to paint people as terrorist or extremist who don’t buy their BS ? Cronyism and special interest of varying perspectives rule our country, not actual laws or justice by any measure.

      1. Good grief! Has anyone read Orwell? Try Animal Farm. You can name the cast of characters. Ladies and gentlemen, read the barn wall, quick before it’s all been changed (again ). The pigs are in charge, the wolves now have drones equipped with thermal imaging. We lost Scalia. It’s pretty bad from my viewpoint. We need to vett and vote OK’s in at all levels of gov’t to slowly right the ship ’cause at this point we don’t even have the constitution on our side. The other options I’m afraid won’t work out as we imagine they will. There are a lot of brainwashed walking among us, sad to say, ….

    2. This is a government of David Rockefeller and his acolytes.

      Before Obama became president he had lunch with David Rockefeller.

      The European Union belongs to the Rothschild mob.

      The leaders of the Sovereign Nations of Europe took the bloodmoney and sold the citizens down the drain, the same as Obama is doing with US citizens.

  10. I only had to read the second paragraph before I feel the fires of Righteousness start to expand! Who ARE THESE PEOPLE and who do they think that THEY are talking to?!?! It SEEMS that THEY are talking to THEMSELVES, NOT to ‘We the People’, and what they ARE talking about is that THEY better do all that THEY can do to cover their actions, which may even include premeditated homicide.
    IF THEY are concerned about US and all the alleged ‘threats’ that WE have allegedly expressed, MAYBE THEY would REALIZE that the MOST PRACTICAL, RIGHTEOUS response would be to have an IMMEDIATE INVESTIGATION BY AN OUTSIDE GROUP!!! This just shows how completely detached THEY are from who THEY are supposed to be representing! THEY are FEARFUL!? And fearful of ‘We the People’!?
    And what about the very good man that we have lost? What about ALL the FAMILY and friends that feel that lose?! And WILL continue to feel for many years to come! And what about the people that are now behind BARS?!
    I understand that I must finish reading the article and then read the comments. I do appreciate the leadership that is provided through the Oath Keepers, of which I am a member. I DO appreciate calm, reasoned thought processes in the midst of any kind of warfare. But we ARE IN WARFARE! Let there be NO mistake about that.
    And there are times in warfare that actions are taken that have nothing to do with that calm logical mindset. There are times that taking a life is the only message understood within the context of the engagement.
    Did our beloved brother who has been killed do everything RIGHT!? Maybe not. But did he DESERVE to be MURDERED??? Do the other people behind bars DESERVE to put there?!?!
    These answers are OBVIOUS to any true American.
    That is all that I shall permit myself to say at this moment. I KNOW that there are MILLIONS of ‘We the People’ that are aware of the treachery that we face. If ANY member of the state police is fearful of US, then WAKE up to what YOU are doing!!!!
    Robert D. Gubisch

    1. I am so thankful for all you loyal Americans and the Oath Keeper’s website. I am tearful to the way our country has changed from our forefathers and the US Constitution. How in God’s name can they say we are a threat when it is the establishment that has become so corrupt they take an innocent man’s life? I pray for each of you and our nation, because, we are at war. God be with you all.

  11. As a retired (after some 40 years ) law enforcement officer who has worked from a foot beat cop to administrator and for more then one agency and even volunteered LEO I am interested to know how many bullets were fired at LaVoy and how many bullets penetrated him. I don’t care which officer was responsible for his death. The responsibility lies with the OSP and FBI and a corrupt government.
    What bothers me is the modern LEO who has taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution etc. who now has no conscience of the failure to defend and protect the constitution.
    There is a time coming when these officers will need to stand tall for their failures. Hopefully this before this country comes into a full revolution.

    1. This is by its very nature how the gestatpo operates not peace officers. Eventually, I don’t care if it’s 90 days or 9 yrs, the names will have to be released at some point. The names will be officially released to posterity, ya know like Herr Gobbels!!! Patients my friends???

  12. To: Stewart Rhodes

    It is in my opinion that Oath Keepers should have stood with the protestors. Levoy Finicum would never have been executed. Much like “Reader” indicates the officials were careful not to give much credence to body cams or any other camera devices that could lead to conviction of any law enforcement involved. As a member of OK, if felt compelled to be part of their stand, but was waiting for the OK call to action which never came. Was it too much for OK to handle? I think not! We are all former military and could have made a stand against such tyranny but again we failed Lavoy and we failed Amon Bundy and his family and associates. The government has been growing stronger and it was Lincoln that said: This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. This was a stand that should have been part of the beginning of such a movement. We are governed less and enslaved more by the cartel and we as the rightful owners of all the land of this country and the rightful protectors should take back our rights to control what happens to the land or for that matter our country! It should be our organization that takes charge and begins to move toward removing the tyranny that is very present in our government. The current administration is hell bent on taking down our constitution for which we swore the very oath and the name sake of the organization for which we are part of. If we cannot uphold this oath as prescribed then we have failed. It is time to act to remove those who would corrupt and offend out land, our law and our country. Time to act is now!! As said when I first went into the service a sentence written time and time again in my training: Now is the time for good me to come to the aid of their country!! Time is NOW!!

    1. I am also totally disappointed with OK mishandling of this Malheur protest. I believe that Oath Keepers leaders were AFRAID of the FBI knowing there was some behind the scenes infiltration into the Bundy group. This should have been even MORE a reason for OK to be in Oregon. I did not expect OK to be at the refuge, but in the least, I expected them to be in the town, comforting the locals who were totally stressed out by the FED presence. I agree, waiting for the call from Oath Keepers prevented thousands of patriots from helping freedom exist. Hope some lessons were learned from this. Sometimes “behind the scenes” support is TOO INVISIBLE to do any good, especially when real time events roll rather quickly. I hope the OK learned from their mistakes, as well as the general public patriots who plan on peaceful protests in the future. I give Oath Keepers a big fat “F” for fail, pertaining to the Oregon protest.
      Thank Yah for Assembly woman Michelle, or there would have been 4 more dead.

      1. This is exactly why decentralized leadership is critical! OK is, I believe a great idea and should be a national movement. But Stewart has said many times that he doesn’t want to turn OK into a militia group. OK mission is OUTREACH to military and LEOs, so they are educated on illegal orders, to prevent another Waco, Ruby Ridge, Katrina, etc. If I’m wrong about this, someone correct me.

        If you read about the history of the minute men- which I am doing right now- you will learn that their greatest successes did not come until they learned (the hard way) the value of decentralized leadership.

        We can, and should, be united by a national voice such as OK, Tenth Amendment Center, etc. But we should not blame OK for small groups failing to act their conscience. Waiting for a National call to action will get people killed. Create a group in your community, which answers only to your own consciences. Many individuals and small groups went to Burns, anyway. I hear tell that some of them acted like complete fools while there, but they could have been agent provocateurs, I don’t know.

        1. Lest we forget the slaughter of John F Kennedy by the criminals of the day: LBJ, Military, CIA, FBI, Mobsters and Big Texas Oil. Killing is a tool. The Clintons learned well from the LBJ school of survival. Now we have Scalia, with the ever changing story from “authorities,” to add to the long and growing list of murders combined with Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. There is no improvement in the near future. We hear the islamist sympathizer in the White House espouse with confidence that the front runner Trump will not be elected president.

          Oregon is another example of the state of the union. The ruthless trigger happy OSP mentality is wide spread. Their eagerness to slaughter is appallingly apparent and expansive. Remember:” We the People” are the enemy, the US constitution is nuisance to these tyrants.

  13. Elias Alias, I ask you….. if there is ANYTHING that ‘We the People’ can do to aid this family in having a FULL disclosure relative to bullets fired relative to this entire situation, please tell us!
    And Stewart, I assume that you are tuned into these responses. When I joined it was out of respect for your perspective. Please do not hesitate to keep US abreast of that which you know.
    When it comes to pledging to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor, I and maybe thousands of others have NO problem with our Lives and our sacred Honor! In the Fortune category is where I feel the …..difference.
    With warm regards for ALL of US,
    Robert D. Gubisch

    1. Our shouts need to rise to the mountaintops as we call for, nay, Demand!, an independent investigation. In the absence of an independent investigation the American people can then see for themselves that government will have its way with the populace regardless of the will of the people. If Fedgov wants to avoid that investigation, we need to shout the obvious conclusion — the government is hiding its sins in order to avoid being corrected.

      When I started my discussion group online sixteen years ago, I noted that “Consciousness works!”. All of us must shout about this, raise the public awareness that the government has no moral ground on which to deny the American people the truth as can only come via an independent investigation.

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      1. OATHKEEPERS RESPONSIBILITY:

        1. Provide the leadership necessary to coordinate a well communicated plan of firm action, to place a series of full page ads in “key major market” (probably western) newspapers demanding to have an IMMEDIATE INVESTIGATION of the Assassination of Robert “Lavoy” Finicum BY A PROVEN COMPETENT OUTSIDE GROUP, not affiliated with the Oregon State Police, Valerie Jarrett, Barack Hussein Obama, or the FBI.

        2. Demand the “immediate release of the names of any the officers or mercenary’s that discharged a firearm into the body of Robert “Lavoy” Finicum”.

        “SILENCE IN THE FACE OF TYRANNY, IS YOUR CONSENT TO THAT TYRANNY”

      2. Shouts to or from the mountaintops mean exactly squat to Leviathan and sadly, the ‘American people’ are largely dumbed down, indoctrinated, woefully ignorant or willingly supportive of govt, even if they grumble a bit over certain of its actions.

        Therefore, such shouts and the certainty of coverup by govt, or refusal by govt to listen or respond to such ‘demands’, will be met with typical inattention, apathy, and/or no care or concern at all from the vast majority of the populous.

        The average ‘snuffy’ citizen is not concerned or attuned to anything beyond work (if they aren’t on govt assistance), beer in the fridge, sports on TV, their own problems and daily life and whatever staged clown-circus is presented to them by the govt-media propaganda ministers from CNN, MSNBC, Network shills, CFoxR and the various and sundry ‘talk show’ propaganda mongers, such as Hannibaugh, O’Pukely, Maddcow, Savagidiot and others.

        There is NO investigation that is going to be ‘allowed’ by Leviathan that will show any truth. The narrative is under the control of Leviathan and NOTHING that comes from govt will be full truth…anything purporting to be an independent investigation would be manufactured and carefully structured to support the actions of Leviathan and mini-leviathan and to show the constitutionalists as being at fault and wrong.

        Of course, you and I already know this, so why the clinging to the ‘official’ position that OK is demanding an independent investigation? Oh, yeah…it is the ‘official’ position.

        Neither Leviathan nor mini-leviathan (Oregon) really gives a rat’s ass what Oath Keepers or the American people ‘demand’. There is far too much at stake for them and far to much insidious chicanery to cover, which goes far deeper that this particular exemplar of tyranny.

        Such a ‘demand’ and such ‘revelations’ as may be revealed when the demand is not honored, or when some watered-down faux ‘investigative report’ is eventually released, well, they amount to as much as a fart in a windstorm.

        Not attacking you, Elias, nor to Org.. I am simply calling it for what it is.

        So then, what next, is the question?

        1. “The average ‘snuffy’ citizen is not concerned or attuned to anything beyond work (if they aren’t on govt assistance), beer in the fridge, sports on TV, …”

          You would be surprised at what regular, everyday Americans are paying attention to. Many are armed, barely trained (meaning firing range practice) and starting to prep, but like most people non military or LE do not know what or how to do what is needed. Nor do they know who to trust which is probably most important on that list.

          Those are the reasons I recommend charging those who serve within our government(s) with the crimes they have committed, including judges. This is something they do understand and can react to appropriately. They are not all dumbed down, many are just uncertain what to do and who to trust – which if you think about it is wise.

          Remember that bad things used against the people were always named as “for the children”, “Patriot Act”, etc. So they no longer trust words, but only actions they understand.

          Yes, they know our courts are rotten to the core, but they still understand lawful charges brought, and that those who bring those charges as a last “chance” will earn respect and trust of the ordinary people. When even polls show that 63% feel those who serve within our government are not only corrupt but criminal in their actions and that something needs to be done (and this was a poll over a year old) but they have no idea what to do to change things. Leadership is needed, and it must be done in a way that the ordinary person can understand and stand with.

  14. Did anyone see the interview with the lady that was in the truck? It was on Newsmax TV. She said they were firing when they pulled up to the first blockade and that’s why they kept going. At the second one she said there were hundreds of rounds going off. She was the last one out of the truck and handcuffed. When they got to the police cruisers they started firing again at the truck after she told them she was the last one.

    Lavoy was hit with 9 rounds, front and back.

  15. A simple solution would be to put Finicum’s murderer in solitary confinement in the nearst jail pending investigation and a trial. Until that happens then alot of hotheads might start thinking that any OSP officer is a reasonable target, and I will bet that there are a fair number of them who are as pissed as we are about what happened. Many of them are veterans, and I’ll just bet a fair number of them are Oath Keepers as well.

    1. Sick of government corruption across the board, rather it be crooked politicians, police brutality and lack of accountability, to corporate corruption and unwitting human experimentation? If so, then you should attend this conference!! Oathkeeper Sheriff Richard Mack: lawman, detective, undercover narcotics agent, author, consultant, motivational speaker, and crusader for liberty, has had a very storied career, will be a speaker a the Global Health and Freedom Conference. http://www.hiphoptherapeutics.com/global-health—freedom-conference-info-objective.html

  16. This situation regarding the murder of Mr. Finicum is reminiscent of the murder of Randy Weaver’s wife by Lon Horiuchi, the Boundary Co., Idaho, D. A. refused to charge Horiuchi with the murder of Mrs Weaver. Last I heard Horiuchi was placed in the witness protection program.

    1. The attorney General in Idaho did bring charges, but the Federal government has a protective law for their agents/employees that protects them from charges and prosecution. The lawsuit had to be withdrawn.

  17. I find the hypocritical aspect of this situation very disturbing. A thug black man get shot while committing a crime, and black lives matter riots, burns, loots, robs, kills, destroys public and private property, and are not considered a threat! Yet we as beacons for Constitutional Government, and the rule of law, are considered more of a threat than ISIS/ISIL or what ever you want to call those blood thirsty savages. The world is turning upside down and backwards. In June of 2008, all Congressmen/women, and senators were served with petitions for grievance, they were all served on the same day, I served comrade Nancy Pelosi, and Lynn Woolsey that day, their response from the speaker herself on national news was “We do not have to acknowledge or respond to calls or petitions of grievance from the people” Well I disagree, and a very long line of abuses, usurpation and acts of treason have been committed, and deserves a response. Communism is against the law in this country, our politicians are defecating in Arlington cemetery, and if we try to do our constitutional duty to respond we are called terrorists. Well guess what white lives matter too, we may not be looting burning and stealing, but we matter too. Our Republic is under threat, form a domestic source, and according to the last time I thought about the Oath I took, it included domestic as well as foreign. I was hoping we the people could use the laws on the books to address this scourge, look up USC 18 and read the laws under that and other USC, we do have the power to file a class action suit against the USA Corporation, RICO laws also apply, we all have standing, we are just not standing tall enough as of yet. Well I think it is about time we did.

  18. I can see no justification for withholding identification of the shooter. Whether or not there are legitimate threats against his life is of little consequence — he’s going to be identified eventually (officially, or otherwise), and have to deal with threats, if there are threats. This serves no public interest, or practical purpose.

  19. “Our masters are insane and un-grateful”.”If you stand up to a bully, who is really a coward, he will run and hide.”
    Hide behind a new law, because they got caught doing their “Master’s” work.
    A Black man gets shot, and Cities burn. People lay on the freeway. And the Nation cheers them on in the name of “justice”.
    A few whites get together for a protest and OMG. Old footage of the Klan floods the air waves, the FBI & their SWAT teams and choppers are deployed. A lone cowboy is bush whacked, and not a word.
    The sheep are shuffling in their pen, oblivious to whats going on, “Master” hasn’t told them.
    And now we need legislation because they are afraid? Some one, some where, typed on a computer, now they are afraid? What happens IF the whole herd wakes up?
    If they are afraid by the handful of us out here right now……………………

    1. Truth spoken.

      Any who actually believe there will be, are self-deluded or are still ignorant of how far along the planned moves by the globalist-colectivist cabal and its vassel-minion govt have progressed.

      ‘The System’ will NOT hold itself accountable and it will NOT deign to ‘allow’ us to do so either.

      So then, what next?

      1. They do not need to “deign” to let us. The US Constitution IS STILL the supreme law of our land. They authority they use when in office, hired, elected, contracted, etc is DELEGATED from us, “We the People”.

        1. Umm, yeah, I and others still look upon the Constitution as in effect, supreme and legitimate as written…and yeah, our Constitutional Republic was designed and founded based upon specific, enumerated, limited delegated powers and duties to govt.

          All that being said, govt has abrogated, usurped and regularly ignores the compact.

          You living in some fantasy land or something?

          Govt doesn’t give a warm shit about ‘we the people’ or about the Constitution, or about delegated sepcific and limited powers.

          The Constitution as written is not being adhered to, nor has it been for a long time. Almost all of our enumerated fundamental liberties have been abrogated, subverted, perverted and/or ignored.

          They are going to have to be forced into the limits set for them and until and unless they are, govt will continue to accelerate toward totalitarianism regardless of you, me, we the people or the Constitution.

          You do grasp that, right?

  20. In any ‘Civil War’, there is a moment when every soul must decide which side they are on, no matter where they may be serving at the time…..

    1. The “tdtalliance” story appears to be completely false. Look at the “screen grab” at the top of the Web page – it is not real – one clue being the misspelling of the word “protocols” on the ‘crawler’ at the bottom with the letter ‘a’ incorrectly in place of the third ‘o’. A search for a pertinent Exec. Order number shows no accurate results. It is an amateurish effort, but judging by the 500+ comments, some gullible souls fell for it, hook, line, and sinker,

      Let’s maintain our focus on genuine threats – both existential and otherwise – and not expend valuable energy and emotion pursuing hoaxes. We need our wits about us!

  21. Assessing the politician behind the bill is tricky as well. Barker is a retired police officer who has been “rated 100%by the National Rifle Association.”

    The NRA supported the NFA 1934, GCA 1968, That 96′ VAWA bill, and they created the Background check system we have now in lieu of the waiting period.. All the Fed is doing now is redefining what it means to be “Mentally Fit, or Law Abiding.” The NRA is complicit, period! Go GOA!

    My Congressman, Dan Newhouse (Or as I call him Doc 2.0), Stole the NRA Endorsement from Clint Didier (Strong Constitutionalist) and is now sitting on a 33% Liberty Voting Record. Even worse, I told a friend that the NRA was backing Newhouse so he called them. They lied to him, then I showed it to him on their website.

  22. PS, I’m as hard on bad policing as anyone, but I’m not sure the greater good gets served by publishing these guys/gals data. The cause of Liberty could get set back ions by one loose fastener. If that were to happen we will all be associated with a single act, just like McVeigh……

  23. Sick of government corruption across the board, rather it be crooked politicians, police brutality and lack of accountability, to corporate corruption and unwitting human experimentation? If so, then you should attend this conference!! Oathkeeper Sheriff Richard Mack: lawman, detective, undercover narcotics agent, author, consultant, motivational speaker, and crusader for liberty, has had a very storied career, will be a speaker a the Global Health and Freedom Conference. http://www.hiphoptherapeutics.com/global-health—freedom-conference-info-objective.html

  24. FOIA requests anyone? Petitions? Legal action? Use the system and/or work to change it by building alliances. They are ramping up because they are panicking: if they loose the election they are apt to be behind bars in the not too distant future for their traitorous actions.

    Too much lawlessness/corruption in government…and too many fires to effectively extinguish them…their massive campaign to destabilize is working and can’t be quickly stopped. This is why they are labeling U.S. Patriots/Constitutionalists as “domestic terrorists”…it is the Cloward Pliven Strategy and all its co-conspirators on display in “real time”. The table has turned and the cost to right it will be high…in human lives…and/or time and resources. Sadly…there is no quick fix.

    Find a safe harbor of like minded officials (e.g., Convention of States, and similar organizations) and work tirelessly and judiciously utilizing USC/CFR “Pathfinders” (those who know the system and how to use it) in order to put them back in the “pen” (see JW/FOIA actions/lawsuit utilized to snag the Hag Hillary e-mails). Otherwise…they will continue rounding us up as individuals/small groups as they did “LaVoy” , et al, for execution/incarceration, respectively.

    1. JW, you said:

      “They are ramping up because they are panicking: if they loose the election they are apt to be behind bars in the not too distant future for their traitorous actions.”

      Umm, no, they are not panicking at all. They are merely following the planned subversion of the remains of America’s ‘once’ Constitutional Republic and the morphing of it into a Global State…read ‘World Govt’.

      These things have long been planned and the many building blocks, abrogations and subversions put in place over many decades.

      We and our parents/grandparents have all allowed it to be set up. It is just beginning to openly manifest and accelerate.

      Things are merely coming to fruition and we are likely to be witness to the horrific things that have long been called crazy tin-foil hat conspiracy theory.

      The only fear is that of those who see what is truly happening and who will oppose it.

      That fear is justified and it is due to the gut-wrenching realization that it is finally playing out before OUR eyes and that all individuals have some hard choices and likely horrific times facing THEM, not some possible down-the-road choices.

      Being somewhat afraid is okay and normal because the stakes are deadly serious and this end-game is for all the marbles, but one must also be grimly-resolved and ready and able to work though that fear.

      1. Elias can probably attest to this: Some very few of us old farts have been for mostly forty years warning and informing folk about what was happening, often getting ridiculed or shunned for the effort. Only in recent years have a large enough number become aware to actually stand some chance of doing anything about it. So, you youngsters out there, we may be too old and weary to offer much assistance, but we will be ready to try. Just don’t go off half-cocked and do not cluster, but disperse so as to offer less target and organize locally. They, the enemy, rely on central planning, not us. Good luck and God speed, and take a copy of the Constitution with you wherever you go. Share it and your concerns with all you meet.

        1. Heh! Salutes to you, Ivan. You have been at it longer than I, lol. I started waking up only sixteen years ago. Prior to that, I was buried in living the American dream, enjoying life, doing my business and having fun, all the while totally ignoring what the idiots in WDC were up to. I got home from my time at war in 1967 and although I knew then that I was done with anything that had to do with the “gubmint”, I did not know how insidiously the statists were working to destroy our country until 1999. But when I woke up, in ’99, I did anything but “shut up”, lol. Been harping about the criminal corruption which owns our government ever since, and learning all the while that the rabbit hole is much deeper than I could imagine.
          But that’s why you ‘n me are here, spreading the word, yes? 😉

          Salute!
          Elias Alias, editor

        2. Ivan,

          For me, I began to wake up to this stuff in the mid-80s and to evaluate, assess and study to see the bigger picture.

          I am likely an ‘old fart’ to many here, also…albeit and thank the lord, I am still hale and hearty enough to train some and to keep reasonably fit and able to ruck-up and manuver.

          I have been called a conspiracy theorist and worse for decades, but then, one always must consider the source of such emotive hystrionics and give it the weight it deserves, which is none at all.

          I would take a squad of cool-headed experienced old farts any day over ‘some’ of the tacticool youngsters out there.

          Take care Brother.

        3. It was the 80’s when my eyes were opened. One night when I was 17 I got all political and a friend suggested I read Ayn Rand. My best friend at the time told Mark, “He is Ayn Rand.” Walked into the bedroom and got me “Fahrenheit 451.”

          It never failed, whenever I started up about “Civil Forfeiture” or “Illegal Search and Seizures,” someone would say, “Well you must have something to hide then.” To which I would reply (still do), “Someday the Cannon will be pointed your direction.” “Someday” is here for most of us, that’s for sure…

    2. J. W., if you fall for that Convention of States bull, they won’t have to round you up, you will already be up and one of them. Don’t believe every word out of a lawyer’s mouth (except maybe Stewarts), but read the Constitution for yourself to see that Art V does not give States the right to call a Convention (Congress does the calling), States apply to the Congress for the call.
      Once called, it is no longer in the hands of the States. Rules can be formed to accomplish number of delegates and other provisions due to the necessary and proper clause at the end of Art I, Sec 8. There is no assurance that a Convention could not “run away,” as did the one that produced our present Constitution (luckily, our founders were much wiser than those likely to perform today).
      Even the percentage for ratification can be changed. The original was, from 100% changed to 3/4ths.
      Think this post is wrong? See: “Publius Huldah Blog” and check her COS statements.

  25. Honesty come hard to government – as USDC Judge Lynn Hughes stated in U.S. v. Edwin P. Wilson, 289 F.Supp.2d 801, (USDC-SD, Texas, 2003) – see below.

    Recall that we still have not seen the twenty-eight (28) pages from the 9/11 Report regarding the Saudi’s involvement.and it has been fifteen (15) years. Some of the investigation, evidence and Warren Commission Report on the JFK assassination still have not been released.

    Remember Ruby Ridge? Recall the government claimed immunity for the killing of Vicki Weaver, in the 1992 calamity infamously known as “Ruby Ridge.” The State of Idaho brought criminal charges against Lon T. Horiuchi (FBI Special Agent – Sniper) who fired the shot from his rifle with a high powered scope into the Weaver cabin, that struck Vicki Weaver in the head and killed her, while she was holding her infant daughter.
    The case was based on the fact that Horiuchi claimed the “Rules of Engagement” had been changed to allow him and his team to shoot any armed adult male in the vicinity of the Weaver cabin, even if they did not present an immediate deadly threat. This change was clearly unconstitutional: in essence the government was declaring war on citizens. Yet no FBI personnel voiced objection when it was made, nor was it ever determined who changed the “Rules” and Horiuchi claimed that he shot at Kevin Harris as he was fleeing to the cabin, but “mistakenly” hit Vicki Weaver. Harris v. Roderick, 126 F.3d 1189 (9th Cir. 1997).
    Horiuchi removed Idaho’s case to federal district court, and moved to dismiss on grounds of Supremacy Clause immunity – In re Neagle. Without even conducting an evidentiary hearing, the district court granted the dismissal. Idaho appealed, and the Court of Appeal in a 2/1 decision by Judge Shubb (joined by Circuit Judge Fernandez) affirmed; Justice Kozinski dissented. Idaho v. Horiuchi, 215 F.3d 986 (9th Cir. 2000). Idaho then petitioned for an en banc hearing before the 9th Circuit, which was granted.
    On June 5, 2001, the Court of Appeals reversed, in a 6/5 en banc decision written by Circuit Judge Alex Kozinski. Idaho v. Horiuchi, 253 F.3d 359 (9th Cir. 2001) The majority found six (6) instances of unresolved material facts concerning Horiuchi’s conduct and cited several instances where his testimony was inconsistent and contradictory (as well as other involved government actors) and therefore legally insufficient to warrant immunity. Justice Kosinski wrote in the majority decision at 362:
    “… When federal officers violate the Constitution, either through malice or excessive zeal, they can be held accountable for violating the state’s criminal laws.”
    * * *
    [at 365] “… Neagle addressed only whether the deputy marshal acted in a way that was generally authorized by federal law. Though Deputy Neagle killed a man who did not pose a deadly threat to Justice Field. see n.7 [The deputy turned out to be mistaken; the suspect was unarmed. See Neagle, 135 U.S. at 53] supra, the Supreme Court appeared convinced that Neagle acted reasonably in light of what he knew. See Neagle, 135 U.S. at 53-54. Neagle therefore had no ocassion to address the more difficult question of whether a federal agent will lose his immunity if he carries out his responsibilities in an unreasonable manner.
    * * *
    [concluding at 377] “In keeping with the constitutional allocation of powers between the federal government and the states, federal agents enjoy immunity from criminal prosecution That immunity has limits. When an agent acts in an objectively unreasonable manner, those limits are exceeded, and a state may bring a criminal prosecution. [P] After carefully examining the record, we cannot agree with the district court that Agent Horiuchi’s use of deadly force against Harris, and, by extension, Mrs. Weaver, was objectively reasonable as a matter of law. Accordingly, Agent Horiuchi is not entitled to dismissal on the ground of Supremacy Clause immunity at this stage in the proceeding. On remand, the district court may conduct an evidentiary hearing to determine whether the evidence supports Agent Horiuchi’s entitlement to immunity under the legal principle’s applicable to the use of deadly force. We therefore REVERSE and REMAND with directions that the district court reinstate the criminal complaint and information and for further proceedings with this opinion.”
    In dissent, Circuit Judge Michael Hawkins (joined by Schroder, Rymer, Slverman and Graber) wrote in part at page 380:
    “Despite the majority’s protestations, there are no disputed issues of material fact in this case, and the majority’s insistence on sending this case back for still more proceedings frustrates the clear intent of the law that Horiuchi and other federal officers be free from the harassing threat of state criminal prosecution for honest mistakes of judgment they might make when carrying out their duties.”
    Free from the harassing threat of state criminal prosecution? We the People are supposed to be sovereign and the government our servants. Why is it that WE are subject to state criminal prosecution and government actors think they are not? No where in the Constitution is government given immunity. The purpose of the Constitution was to limit the power of government.
    Judge Hawkins concludes his dissent at 402, claiming that denying “Supremacy Clause immunity to federal officers” will have a “chilling” effect on FBI agents:
    [and at 403] “… We seriously delude ourselves if we think we serve the cause of liberty by throwing shackles on those agents and hauling them to the dock of a state criminal court when they make such mistake, … The clear mandate of over a hundred years of Supremacy Clause jurisprudence forbids the state of Idaho from prosecuting Horiuchi for his mistaken judgment in this regrettable incident. Because I cannot agree with the majority’s attempt to thwart that law, I respecffully dissent.”
    Chilling effect? That was the same feeble justification that Justice Field put forth in Bradley (and thereafter its progeny) for why judges need immunity, but was succinctly shot down by Justice Douglas in Pierson. Regrettable incident? Majority’s attempt to thwart the law? Forbids Idaho from prosecuting Horiuchi? If the “Rules of Engagement” had not been illegally changed, Vicki Weaver would not have been killed and there would be no regret, nor need for prosecution. If Attorney General Reno would have simply done her job, upheld the law, the Constitution and prosecuted Horiuchi, Idaho would not have had to.
    The majority did not attempt to thwart the law, as Judge Kozinski’s majority opinion answered Judge Hawkins, in part in footnote 10:
    “The dissent reads previous Supremacy Clause immunity cases as suggesting that so long as an officer is not on a ‘frolic and detour,’ courts may deny the immunity claim where the officer acted without deliberate malice or other criminal intent. … Closer to home, an officer may not raise a Nuremberg Defense and claim that he shot a suspect who posed no threat because he believed his duty required him to follow orders. [P] The dissent suggests that denying immunity where the officer acted in the scope of his official duties and without deliberate malice would be unprecedented. … What’s unprecedented about this case is that the taking of human life was planned. … Horiuchi commanded his squad under orders to shoot any armed males he saw, regardless of whether they posed any danger. He testified that the issue of danger had already been decided by his superiors before his men ascended the hill. …”

    What’s unprecedented about this case is that the taking of human life was planned. Any liberty loving person should – no must – read Idaho v. Horiuchi, 253 F.3d 359, and decide – judge for themselves – whether the conduct of FBI Special Agent Horiuchi should escape prosecution. (The conduct of the other involved government actors there should also be scrutinized.)
    On June 15, 2001 Boundry County, Idaho Prosecutor Brett Benson issued a press release stating his office would not continue the prosecution of Horiuchi. He gave no reason. (On January 7, 2001, Benson replaced Denise Woodbury, who on August 22, 1997 filed the involuntary manslaughter case against Horiuchi, two days after then Attorney General Janet Reno announced no charges would be filed against Horuuchi, or any of his superiors. Woodbury, who had an attorney staff of one, appointed Los Angeles attorney Stephen Yagman, who specialized in police misconduct cases, as a special prosecutor to assist in the case; he accepted the assignment pro bono publico.) On July 10, 2001 Yagman’s piece “Out of Reach – federal Law Enforcement Officers Should Be Subject to State Criminal Laws” was published in the Los Angeles Daily Journal, p.6. There Yagman’s final paragraph reads:

    “The public interest requires a final resolution of this important national issue because a true republican democracy requires that federal law enforcement be subject to the states’ criminal laws or else the feds will continue to be both lawless and beyond the reach of the law.”

    The feds will continue to be both lawless? Yes. And beyond the reach of the law? Yes. Why did Attorney General Reno let Horiuchi and his superiors off scot free? Because government has been elevated – over and above the sovereignty and rights of the People. The sovereignty of the People has been inverted. The Constitution rendered meaningless. The government wins, the People lose.

    This failure by Reno was tyranny. Only to be followed up by the federal district court dismissing Idaho’s case. Followed then by the 9th Circuit affirming the dismissal. (To his credit Justice Kozinski dissented.) Then Idaho appealed, with the 6/5 en banc majority decision by Judge Kozinsi, reversing and remanding. That was 8 judges, favoring government over the People here, on irrefutable violations of the constitution.

    An LA Times June 6, 2001 front page article “Agent Can be Tried in Ruby Ridge Death” reported in part:

    “A U.S. Senate subcommittee that reviewed the Ruby Ridge standoff said in 1995 that it had ‘helped weaken the bond of trust that must exist between ordinary Americans and our law enforcement agencies.’”

    Weaken the bond of trust? No it shattered the bond of trust. Beyond the illegal killing and tragic death of Vicki Weaver, her 14-year-old son, Sammy was also killed from a shot in the back, husband-father Randy Weaver and family friend Kevin Harris were each shot and critically wounded. U.S. Deputy Marshal William Degan also died in the incident. The incident started when Degan and fellow Marshals Cooper and Roderick, were discovered on the Weaver property and apparently Roderick shot and killed the Weaver dog, striker. Further, Weaver and Harris each brought civil rights cases against the government, settled respectively for $3.1 million and $380,000 (plus attorneys fees on each case) – which we citizens and taxpayers got the bill for, not the involved government actors. This is what happens – this is the product – of government immunity.
    For those still having any doubt what government is capable of, you are urged to read U.S. v. Edwin P. Wilson, 289 F.Supp.2d 801, (USDC-SD, Texas, 2003), by district Judge Lynn Hughes, that reversed and vacated the 1983 conviction of Wilson (after he served 17-years, 10 in solitary), based on massive prosecutorial and other government agency misconduct, including perjured testimony, manufactured evidence and the withholding of evidence. There Judge Hughes wrote in part starting at page 802:
    “Twenty years ago the government tried a former central intelligence officer for exporting explosives to Libya. His defense was simple. He said he was still working for the Company. The government refused to disclose records of his continues association with the agency. When he presented witnesses to his contacts after the end of his formal employment, the government convinced the judge to admit an affidavit from a principal CIA official to the effect that there were, with one minor exception, none—zero. There were, in fact, over 80 contacts, including actions parallel to those in the charges.
    “[P] … Because the government knowingly used false evidence against him and suppressed favorable evidence, his conviction will be vacated. [P] This opinion refers only to the part of the record that the government has reluctantly agreed may be made public. It does not attempt to recount even that limited range of data in its entirety; the governmental deceit mentioned here is illustrative—not exhaustive.
    * * *
    [at 809] “Honesty comes hard to the government. It describes its non-disclosure as ‘information allegedly concealed by the Briggs declaration.’ (Gov’t Answer at 64.) This is a semantic game—the information was not allegedly concealed; it was actively concealed…” [P] “The investigation is a dodge; there was no need to investigate: it knew the affidavit was false before it offered it. …”
    * * *
    “[at 811] “The government says that its use of the false affidavit was an innocent error. … In this case, however, the falsity comes from high public officials with access to voluminous records—not some high school dropout street-level drug dealer with a memory of one sale. … [P] … The evidence, now, shows that the hierarchies of both the Justice Department and CIA were as knowledgeable as was the individual talking to the judge and jury. … The court has identified about two dozen government lawyers who actively participated in the origninal non-disclosure to the defense, the false rebuttal testimony, and the refusal to correct it. …”
    * * *
    [at 815] ”In the course of American justice, one would have to work hard to conceive of a more fundamentally unfair process with a consequently unreliable result than the fabrication of false data by the government, under oath by a government official, presented knowingly by the prosecutor in the court room with the express approval of his superiors in Washington.”
    * * *
    [at 816] “This sort of behavior is among the reasons that the Constitution allows an accused to confront the witnesses against him. Instead of a witness who Wilson could examine before the jury, in his Texas trial Wilson was contradicted by a dishonest agency issued from a bunker in Virginia.”
    Judge Hughes is to be commended for doing his duty here, defending the constitution, upholding the law, holding government to some degree of accountability, and attempting to right the extreme wrong done Mr. Wilson. Then again, this simply is his job and – he took an oath to defend the constitution. Judge Hughes though, goes rather light on the trial judge – Ross Sterling (barely mentioning him), who ignored Wilson’s objection to the Briggs affidavit, the Constitution-6th Amendment, wrongly favored government, wrongly allowed the Briggs’ affidavit and therefore failed in his gate-keeping function and helped cause the bogus conviction of Mr. Wilson. The same is true of the appellate circuit judges, Politz, Gee and Johnson, who unanimously affirmed Wilson’s conviction, as Judge Hughes does not even mention their names. U.S. v. Wilson, 732 F.2d 404 (5th Cir. 1984). There Judge Politz wrote in part at page 413:
    “The affidavit [Briggs] was not inadmissible hearsay. … It was executed by the third highest official in the CIA whose duties include overall management, and it is attested to by the General Counsel of the CIA, the custodian seal of the CIA. [P] Wilson argues that introduction of the affidavit violated his right to confrontation of witnesses. The claim is not devoid of merit but it is not sufficient to render the affidavit inadmissible as a matter of law. Most exceptions to the hearsay rule necessarily implicate an interruption of the right of confrontation. That fact alone does not bar use of otherwise relevant, material evidence which satisfies sufficient guarantees of trustworthiness and reliability.
    * * *.
    “Appellant claims a Brady violation, suggesting that the government had information about association of certain people with the CIA which would have materially aided Wilson/s defense. Our review of the record, with particular emphasis on the classified filings, briefs and oral arguments, satisfies us beyond peradventure that no Brady violation occurred.”
    Satisfies sufficient guarantees of trustworthiness and reliability? Wrong. But once again here is government – judges- siding with, favoring government, instead of upholding the constitution and protecting the rights of the People. . Satisfies us beyond peradventure that no Brady violation occurred? Wrong again.
    .Ii must be pointed out, several of the intimately involved federal officials in the Wilson case had their careers greatly enhanced by the conviction and “went on to become some of the most prominent men in legal circles today” including becoming federal judges. (See April 28, 2005 ABC Nightline expose “The Most Dangerous Man in American–Conviction of former CIA Agent Overturned on False Affidavit” at http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/print?id=708779.) Will anything happen to those involved federal officials who lied, deceived and manufactured evidence? Or will they have they government protect them? The matter provides a test case whether we have a Rule of Law? A meaningful Constitution.? Or tyranny?

    Recall the Gulf of TokiniIncident.Resolution? The Pentagon Papers? Then more recently, there is Fast & Furious, the IRS scandal, Benghazi, Hillary Clinton’s server and emails, etc., in the Obama Administration.

    Yes – Honesty comes hard to government. (The above examples are illustrative and not exhaustive. Actually, the examples of our fed government dishonesty, abuse, oppression and tyranny – is a long, long, list.) So yes, WE The PEOPLE have very good reason to mistrust the government. Therefore the shooting of Mr. LaVoy Finicum must be thoroughly investigated by an independent commission and must be thoroughly reported by an honest and independent media.

    Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance.

  26. I consider the Finicums and the Bundys to be political prisoners. They are in jail because they are disagreeing with the out of control government that tolerates no dissenters. Guess we are all to lay down and let them do whatever they want with no protest..

  27. when i saw levoy gunned down i had the same sensation in my gut when kennedy was assassinated. we the people must discover who directed the fbi / osp, and any others that may or may not have been involved, to set up this bonnie & clyde style roadblock ambush seeing that these were not bank robbers, murderers, or terrorists. hillary clinton is free as a breeze after clearly violating top secret clearance and the fbi seems to be getting nowhere, but here in oregon they can gun down a protesting rancher ? i have read almost all the comments here so i know i’m preching to the choir. if this condition continues to deteriorate law enforcement will have to make some hard choices, starting with the sheriffs office. it was a big mistake to make a stand in burns with a sheriff who is the interim sheriff of a small town with little understanding of the constitution and will to protect the citizens of his co. ( the hammonds ) oregon is at a point where federal appointees of clinton & obama are making rouge decisions from the bench & courtrooms, they never should have been allowed to jeopardize the hammonds by violating their 5th. & 8th. amendment. the hammonds should be released immediately, with compensation & the finicums should sue the state of oregon 50 mil. for wrongful death. where will this end ? time will tell, hope it ends well.
    neo
    attacks on the constitution are like the self inflicted wounds of a mad man.

  28. Maybe calm down a little and think for a moment. Have you called your Congressman and Senators and asked them to call for an investigation ??? So many people screaming Constitution this and that and then do not want to follow the process that it lays out….”let’s all get our guns and go to town !!!” You ever think that maybe Obama is trying to make you or some hotheads do something like that so he can have an excuse to declare martial law and stay in office and bring the hammer down ????? Might be worth pondering before you all start going crazy and causing a big disturbance that most likely you cannot win anyway if Obama really wanted to stop you……. Write your Congressmen and Senators and ask for an answer and pass that around and work within the system at least until Obama has to leave office…. Do not take the bate he is hanging out there… Think about it …… Yes, protect and protest peacefully, within the law, and only if you are wanted there, but act responsibly and do not give anyone a reason to say you caused any problem….. Do not say things that might come back to bite you in the hindend….

    1. Good advice there. ole Shoemaker. Thank you for reading here and posting your comments.
      I would like to add, for visiting readers’ knowledge, that not all people who post comments under articles here are members in Oath Keepers. Our comment sections are open to the general public. Oath Keepers’ leadership does not necessarily consult the comment sections under articles here to determine how they should formulate official Oath Keepers policy.
      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

    2. ole shoemaker, yes you are right, and i do email greg walden regularly, & recently communicated just that as you said, walden is as close as anyone in understanding exactly what is going on here. he has years of experience with the ranchers & blm in eastern oregon. ignorance, complacency, and inaction only increas the difficulty of the task ahead. i believe the people of burns have gotten their wakeup call and now fully understand their constitutional rights. the ballot box is a powerful tool, i feel voter turn out will break all records there in the future.
      neo
      attacks on the constitution are like the self inflicted wounds of a mad man.

  29. What does it mean to “join the fight to defend the Constitution”, as is the trademark call from Oath Keepers . Can a “fight” really consist in the restraint promised by a declaration of all the things that Oath Keepers will not do? Would we ever have had the United States of America if Washington’s army had opted to simply declare that they would never participate in the tyranny of the crown, rather than fighting to defeat it? The Oathkeeper premise is fatally flawed in that the standdown order it implies never ensues an effective action. This idea is best illustrated by the popular saying “all that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to stand by and do nothing”. Unless Oatk Keepers’ restraint is reciprocally observed by a substantial supermajority of the agents of the tyranny, our efforts will result virtual fecklessness. Tyranny does not stop until it is stopped. In the second paragraph of the Declaration Of Independence, Jefferson tells us what we must do. And from the signature statement at the end of that document, we are told what our state of mind must be. What, and who are we?

    1. Just think, Sig;
      Before Stewart Rhodes created Oath Keepers, one with your powers of observation would have had no group to which one could post such observations. 😉

      I note that for you because of a common (but seldom thought about) fact of life which applies to everyone. Sleep. We awaken from the levels of sleep-states, moving upward from the deeper sleep-states in steps, generally speaking. The collective American psyche (collective consciousness; or the “group mind”) is yet in a level of sleep which, while nearing a wakeful state, is yet not actually awake. Oath Keepers, operating at least in part as a “Psychological Operations organization”, has inched the slumbering group mind of the nation a few degrees closer to wakefulness. One sign of that is the fact that prior to the founding of Oath Keepers about seven years ago, one seldom heard politicians talk about honoring their Oath, but since then no political candidate overlooks his PR obligation to announce that of course he would honor his Oath if the people would just elect him. No matter the fact that the idiot politicians who say such things are either lying through their teeth or are just plain ignorant about the Constitution – the fact is that Stewart has injected the Oath into the national dialogue in a very short time.

      So, while your point has the ring of validity to it on some planes, in my view you may be seriously mis-reading the intent of Stewart’s basic premise. You have to admit that at least now the nation is talking about the role of Veterans and current serving, isn’t that so? That is a step higher up the ladder toward awakening the sleeping giant.

      And btw, Sig – are you the Sig I met at Dillon, Montana? Thanks for reading at Oath Keepers.

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

  30. Here are the other sponsors/cosponsors of the bill:
    Representative Carla Piluso [D] Primary Sponsored
    Representative Paul Evans [D] Primary Sponsored
    Senator Laurie Monnes Anderson [D] Cosponsor Sponsored
    Representative Chris Gorsek [D] Cosponsor Sponsored
    Representative Susan McLain [D] Cosponsor Sponsored

    And the committee votes all ‘yea’:
    Rep. Jeff Barker [D]
    Rep. Brent Barton [D]
    Rep. Mitch Greenlick [D]
    Rep. Wayne Krieger [R]
    Rep. Ann Lininger [D]
    Rep. Andy Olson [R]
    Rep. Jessica Pederson [D]
    Rep. Bill Post [R]
    Rep. Sherrie Sprenger [R]

    Amendment to original bill which came out of committee (current version):

    “…Permits
    plaintiff who brings cause of action against law enforcement unit for act or omission committed
    by police officer whose identifying information is under protective order to petition
    court to release identifying information of police officer…”
    Representative Jeff Reardon [D] Cosponsor

  31. You know there was more than one shooter involved here. And that final shot over his body in the snow was just brutal. 1 guy kicks Lavoy, then another gestures to another man who then unstraps his rifle from his shoulder & hands it over to that man. That man then points the rifle low & at LaVoy Finicums.. This is all after you see him take multiple shots while standing, as well as in the back, & then shots once he is down. There were many shooters. ABC was embedded w/ this roadblock. They have footage & audio, as well they are all witnesses. Force for the full release of ALL unedited that ABC has.

  32. Obama gave the order to assassinate Lavoy ; And to arrest the Bundy’s and the Militias and Hitlary was the instigator for everything that transpired at the Hammons ranch !!! It was too steal the resources on their property for profit and led to their imprisonment ; Corruption runs deep from Washington DC to the state of Oregon to Burns and to The Wildlife Refugees Center . Sheriff Ward , Commissioner Gillespie , the Governor and the employees at The Wildlife Refugees Center should be prosecuted and the Mercenaries the FBI and the Oregon State police also should be prosecuted and the Bundy’s and the Militias should be released immediately from Federal custody they were only protesting , which is their Constitutional right’s under the First amendment .

    1. Good Lord, Man — how can you say Obama gave the order to assassinate LaVoy Finicum? I mean, like really. Do you have a shred of proof of that? Or is it just that the idea fits with your view of the paradigm you choose to believe? Friend, you are certainly correct about mischief hiding behind the surface of this whole thing, but your claim about Obama giving assassination order is a bit much. We try to keep things as close to real as we can, yes? Think about how your opening sentence will sound to most readers here. Be calm, be cool, and back your statement with a White House press release or an EO or something, okay? Our readers are intelligent people, so let’s honor their intelligence by refraining from making claims unless we can document those claims, yes? Thanks!

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      1. Attempts to force the Hammonds to sell their property have been ongoing since 1979. The best coverage of the history of the harassment of the family can be found in Range Magazine. A simple search of ‘range magazine hammond pdf’ will link you to the two most complete articles. They are titled ‘Government Tyranny’ and ‘Enemies of the State’.

  33. Is anyone else having trouble posting here? Not one of my posts will appear now. This started happening several days ago. Now Zero posts will appear. Maybe the articles here should have more posts on them. Seems some posts are going into a black hole! Too bad, I learn so much here and was enjoying contributing.

  34. Hmmm…this is a real conflict. On the one hand a lot of conservatives are angry and want to know this officer’s name-on the other hand they also put up banners on their facebook and bumperstickers o their cars that say “Blue lives matter”. This will make a psychiatrist somewhere have to work overtime.

  35. Well to all the OK who were at the Bundy ranch stand off, better watch your 6. Read an article on yahoo this morning and it listed all the charges against Cliven Bundy for that event. It also mentioned 200 hundred more arrest were in the offing. They got the videos and pictures of who was there so it won’t be hard to identify who their after. ( Just Sayin) Unless I missed something in the article or read it wrong. You all can go read for yourselves. Thought we had the moral high ground. Seems not. I wasn’t there but did send money to the cause. So will that put me on the list as well??? Kinda thought that DIRTY harry reid wouldn’t spit the bit on this one. Guess I was right

    Ken

  36. The whole world has known the name of Vicki Weaver’s assassin for decades. Lon is safe, and out there promoting products. What then, do they truly fear? Is it that the identity of the shooter would show that he wasn’t state police – or some other issue?

  37. An oppressed people are authorized whenever they can to rise and break their fetters. Henry Clay

    Where is the justice today. Where is the autopsy? Rise up and contact your legislators and let them know that we want a full investigation and justice for LeVoy. If that doesn’t work, then we need to rise up and let our voice be heard. People have petitions out there, that I find useless.

    The chains are getting so tight, I can hardly breathe.

  38. Most folks have yet to find out that Hilarious Klinton, Ted Cruz and others signed a secret agreement at the 2013 G-20 summit meeting giving China and RUSSIA western US land (illegally) for our debt. Lets not forget that Hilarious State Dept. signed off on the sale of US uranium mining assets owned by Canadians and sold off to Russia ….. this is TREASON pure and simple. Stand up people !!!!!

  39. Elias Alias and David Codrea,
    I figured your comment section was open to all… I was not implying there were any hotheads at Oath Keepers. Sorry if anyone took it that way. I have gone to many sites and read a lot of trash talking and was not even implying anyone on your site had a problem… Let me apologize if anyone took it that way… I get wound up myself over some of these political and Government incidents. I used to be an Oath Keeper and am looking around for my info to join back up. Sorry, ran across some bad times [health and business] and lost about everything…. Blah, blah, blah, whine, whine… Anyone got roses to go with that whine ???

    I have been following Oath Keepers through your emails and on your website. I listened to the conference call with the five or six Gentlemen, including David Codrea and Stewart Rhodes. They all Had some very good ideas and things to be worked on. Shortly after that, I saw David Codrea’s article in Ammoland and really was shocked how I was not paying attention about the NRA board… I knew of a lot of complainers about the NRA, but really had not gotten involved in elections that much. Thanks for that info David. NRA was ALWAYS my “go to” Organization and felt they were taking care of business. Now I know that …………… OH WELL, that is a whole different story, got to stay awake and up to speed…

    Anyway, all to say that I think that a lot of people are looking for an organization who they can 100% trust and keep them informed of the current events. There was and still is so much misinformation and unsubstantiated information out there about the Oregon incident that it just proves to me we need someone trustworthy to get us good information. A place to turn for the truth and/or just the facts and if there is no new information available, just say so. I know there was some tough times and probably a lot of times when there was no information available. I went to several sites that had people at Bundy Ranch and the mine operation and claim they just had no new information for a week or so. One said he was on the phone with the Western States Organization all night, but really did not say that much about what they said was going on. I am not saying that Oath Keepers did anything wrong on their end and most likely went above and beyond, and I may have missed lots of information on other sites, but all I am saying is that working on a trustworthy information system and combining other trustworthy organization’s information to one place, a trustworthy “go to” place, where we can get the latest quickly and accurately, would prove to be a big asset to us all in the future, near and far…

    Also hoping my health will improve shortly, so I can get involved with my state Oath Keepers org. and find where I can help out, myself. Unless I just missed a lot, I did notice that my “go to” org. has had nothing to say or do with any of these latest events. WOW !!!

    I also think truthful and timely information allows us all to make intelligent choices and inform others correctly of our stands on the issues. Also, when I said write your Congressmen/women, I meant everyone should in every State, not just Oregon. I think a Congressional hearing on the matter is in order. Anything else begins to stink of cover up….

    Other Congressional questions I have is when did the FBI or local LEOs obtain the power to arbitrarily jam communications as some claim happened in Oregon, including the internet???? Or create a “No Fly Zone” as happened when the “rogue” policeman was “killed” in California???? Sounds to me like one is hiding something if they are doing that. First Amendment Rights violation????

    Anyone who says the second Amendment is a single issue to itself has a serious case of “head up and locked” syndrome…………………

  40. The blurry image provided by the FBI is how a hoax is started. The redacted markers clearly indicate this is a very sophisticated optic that has the capability of reading words on a button attached to a shirt or jacket. It certainly can determine if a weapon is present. What we need to see to is the high resolution version of this film

  41. Recalling the Waco fiasco of which Janet Lynch ultimately took responsibility for, it is not a stretch that the administration at the highest levels were complicit or actively desiring a fatal end for at least one or more of the occupiers. If the engagement resulted in the death of any law enforcement personnel, all the better. That alone would set they stage for an all out assault on Second Amendment rights as they presently exist.
    Oregon’s Governor Brown sent letters to Obama, DOJ Attorney General Loretta Lynch, And FBI head James Comey.
    This administration is not to be trusted for its aggressive moves against our citizenry, and Obama’s lawless disregard of the Constitution, the Congress, and our citizens should be more than evidence of that fact.
    Sufficient to say, Congress in its own right is complicit for not reigning this maverick in.
    My take? They are all corrupt if not the most of them !
    There is a true saying, “When the wicked bear rule, the people mourn, but when the righteous reign, there is rejoicing.
    Obama is the most evil, treacherous man ever to have held the office of the United States. His corruption exceeds by far any of the failures of the flesh others before him are guilty of. He is the only one of them to contemn God.
    For any here who do not understand my saying, I echo the words of the prophet, “And Samuel said, what mean etch then this bleating of sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of oxen that I hear?”
    Obama has violated the trust of the American people and destroyed any hope of confidence of government to faithfully fulfill its function. His Presidency is a cancer of which every effort is to destroy our Charter, our institutions, and the fundamental principles which first informed us.
    Not unlike the AIDS virus, we are being destroyed as a nation because our foundations are being destroyed. Our agencies are being defeated in counties across the land, and except for remarkable men such as David Clark, Sheriff Joe, and the ever watchful folks at OA under Sheriff Mack, there would be no voices to be heard.

  42. i’m afraid this is just the beginning of the end of America as we know it i’ve.been around 70 years and have watched it decline.we need to do some thing quickly if we want to keep from being a state of the united nations!

  43. From a strategic point of view, It strikes me as unconscionable procedure to have such high profile/value targets un-escorted and without intel on a country road in no-where in the first place, so at this point, nothing surprises me.

  44. hello to all, i highly recommend that everyone take a few minutes and read 3 articles from the shasta lantern , when you get to the bottom of the reading you will see 2 rectangular boxes, one for the previous article and one for the next.
    neo

    shastalantern.net/2016/01/power-corrupts-absolutely-ties-that-bind-run-deep-with-aiken-family-in-hammond-case/

  45. “Assessing the politician behind the bill is tricky as well. Barker is a retired police officer who has been “rated 100%by the National Rifle Association.” That said, Obama for America included him in its “Support from Oregonians” list, and NRA has characterized Obama as “the most anti-gun president in history.” So either NRA is being bipolar, or giving aid and comfort to the enemy is not something they want their members to consider when heeding their political ratings.”

    You don’t know why that cop introduced that bill? The NRA isn’t being bipolar, cops cover for each other when they commit crimes. Cops are not the good guys, Bubba. Cops are the most violent criminal element in society. So when this former cop sees cops gunning down a man in cold blood, and he’s in a position to cover them, he does it.

  46. This incident seems a lot like the one in DC a while back where a Woman was killed in her car because she tried to Run from the Police .. and she had her Baby in the car with her..

  47. The FBI was there to Arrest the Protesters or Kill them. Why did Finicum try to Run through the Roadblock? Or Run at all? He should have stayed at the Refuge with the others … the FBI was hoping for an excuse to kill some of the Protesters … Finicum gave them that Excuse when he tried to Run.

    1. Believing that he made any effort to run the roadblock requires setting aside the fact that, from the point at which his pickup came out of the final curve, and the existence of the roadblock became visible, there was – either by deliberate design (nefarious, if you think about it too long), or tragic, really inexcusable ignorance… inadequate distance to stop, given his reaction time, and the rate of speed of the vehicle.

      The use of a roadblock is in/of itself considered a “use of deadly force”, and is either proscribed, or severely limited by a large number of reputable, up-to-date police and Sheriff’s departments across the U.S., including Portland, Oregon as one example…

      Setting one requires clearly exigent circumstances…to include immediate danger to the general public (for example, an active shooter, hostage situation, or suicide bomber…), a fleeing suspect in the commission of a violent felony…etcetera. Neither the FBI, nor the OSP has yet made that case in an adequate, believable manner. There were numerous other possible scenarios that authorities could have created by way of ‘ops’ to take Mr. Finicum into custody in an entirely peaceful manner. It looks too much like they chose otherwise.

      Without such clear justification, too many reasonable questions remain not just unanswered, but entirely unaddressed, and that should be unacceptable in the extreme.

  48. Elias Alias ; I understand your concern’s for being heavy handed over my statement’s concerning Obama ; The evidence that you specify that should be included when I push that kind of a point that i’ll never be able to have access too anyways . I probably should’ve of added more circumstantial evidence to document my allegation’s . You have a right to know how I came to that conclusion and with all due respect believe it or not I do think these things through I try to look at the big picture not the little picture . When a law enforcement agency execute’s a certain kind of decision to shoot somebody with their hands up in the air and it’s being videotaped for the world to see with know worry of accountability ; You have to ask the question ; Why ? I’m sure you know and understand the chain of command ; Right ? Too Target Lavoy and the way they went about it had to come from a higher Authority and there had too be some political underpinnings to it , which it would of had to come from the Justice department ; Ms. Loretta Lynch too the law enforcement agencies involved whether the FBI or the Oregon State police . The Governor of Oregon requested to the Justice Department and President Obama to end the siege . Loretta Lynch is under the President’s Authority ; Especially when there are political underpinnings to the action ; It could of come directly from Valerie Jarrett ; And it could of been her decision but she still would have had to have Obama’s permission ; Other words he would’ve had to sign off on it !! To allow the order too be exercised through the chain of command to the Jjustice Department and Ms. Loretta Lynch and then down to the F.B.I. on down to in conjunction with the Oregon state police . I listen too former agents of the FBI and their analogie’s and they all stated that it was a Sting or designed too be in ambush to single out Lavoy . In my opinion something of this nature would of come directly from the White House because of the political overtone’s . I apologize to the members and to you for not using the correct porta call of my expression in my usage of my word’s correctly and how I presented that as my first sentence on my post , which obviously offended the intelligence of the members on your site . I hope you accept my apology !!

    1. Steve, there is no need for you to apologize, Bro. I am known to be a bit touchy anyway, so please accept my apology too. 😉

      What would work for me would be if you had simply said, “The Obama administration was behind the murder of LaVoy Finicum”. Saying it that way does two things – first, it accuses the administration of over-zealously creating a deadly-force situation based on political assessments by the administration, which would include the DOJ and the Governor and numerous underlings. Secondly, it would not imply that Obama himself cared one way or another about some silly lands dispute out West. Personally, I doubt Obama spent two minutes thinking about the whole matter, as he has plenty of minions under him to handle the day-to-day situations which arise and he has much more intriguing games to play in the middle-east. But of course it’s possible that DOJ asked for clearance in obliging the Governor’s request to get the situation ended quickly. In my opinion, the Governor is where the ultimate blame should come to rest finally, with plenty of guilt shared by FBI and OSP.

      Anyway, Bro, we’re just talking on the Internet and our written words are void of emotional connotations which our voices would have. I’m sorry if I sounded too harsh. Thanks for reading and commenting here.

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      1. elias alias…

        just want to reveal the names of all the big wheels behind the scenes here in oregon.

        kate brown oregon gov. ( of coarse , oregons first openly bi-sexual governor ) whoopee !
        ellen rosenblum oregon attorney general ( her big claim to fame ? going after leo’s for tracking black lives matter texts)
        billy j williams jr. oregon us attorney ( replaced amanda marshall ) more offensive rhetoric.
        ron wyden oregon senator ( publicly stated ” the virus must not spread ” ) more very offensive rhetoric.
        jeff merkley oregon senator ( another joker in the deck )
        ann aiken oregon us chief judge ( swore in amanda marshall ) clinton appointee, several conflict of interest allegations.
        stacie beckerman us magistrate ( sworn in by ann aiken ) sitting on the bundy group trial
        stefen grasty harney county judge ( another joker in the deck )
        amanda marshall former us attorney obama appointee, who initiated this whole nonsense against the hammonds, who during the kitzhopper hays fbi investigation was found to be stalking one of her employees and decided to resign for health reasons.
        so, here you can see what a great bunch we have here in oregon running things, and there may be others as well.
        as far as i’m concerned these are the names responsible for the immoral , unconstitutional acts against the hammonds
        the bundys and lavoy finicum. i predict lavoy finicum will become an american hero and there will be a national monument erected on the very spot where he was murdered. just my opinion.
        neo

        attacks against the constitution are like the self inflicted wounds of a mad man.

        1. Very interesting, thank you. I knew about Amanda Marshall (‘health reasons’, that’s a good one). Ann Aiken’s own Wikipedia page reveals her history in Democrat politics, and mentions her deceased husband (suicide) was a Poly Sci professor at the University of Oregon and was a former chair of the Democratic Party of Oregon.
          These people all have mental issues.

  49. Someone made a comment somewhere that La Voy had written a book. I went to his website: One Cowboy;s Stand For Freedom” and it has a lot of info at it. The book is fiction and the title is: Only by Blood and Suffering: Regaining Lost Freedom. I then went to Amazon, and it is there: cost around $20..I read many of the comments about it…those prior to his death were complimentary..some, after his death, were not..(they probably did not even read the book)..

    I noticed at this Amazon site for his book some other books listed. There is one, titled, Last Rancher Standing, (re: La Voy) by Shawna Cox…

    And, there are 2 books on Cliven Bundy..”The Cliven Bundy Story – a close up view”..and the other, pretty recent(1-23-16)…”The Book of Bundy:the chronicle of a welfare cowboy, Volume I”

    all 4 books may give some more additional insight on things…I only read the comments on La Voy’s book (fictional)…but will look up the other 3 books and see if they have comments…you can usually tell if the “commenter” is a person with wisdom or just someone who has no depth of character… and just wants to slander someone, and is “loose with the truth”…(aka “lying”)

    1. George- Having read his writings on occasion, I’m convinced Bob is a statist with a slave mentality, and he would likely have turned in his own mother to his “masters” for helping to free slaves just because it was “the law”. I wouldn’t pay any attention to his “opinions”.

  50. “Secrecy is the keystone to all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy and censorship. When any government or church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, “This you may not read, this you must not know,” the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked in this fashion; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, whose mind is free. No, not the rack nor the atomic bomb, not anything. You can’t conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein

  51. correction on my post above…There is the one book that LaVoy wrote, fiction, titled: Only by blood and suffering:Regaining lost freedm”..There are 2 on Cliven Bundy…the one by Shawna Cox is: Last Rancher Standing – The Cliven Bundy Story – a close up view. (I had said the book was about LaVoy..it was Cliven..not LaVoy.) And the second book on Cliven is the one titled: The Book of Bundy:The chronicle of a welfare cowboy…published Jan 2015 or 16… I thought it was 2016… will have to recheck

  52. This is beginning to take the shape of a shooting hoax we saw in Sandy Hook Protecting information like ID of the officer is a strong one. Many elements of the video and testimony point to a scripted event. This is not to say the land-grab is not a genuine issue.

  53. This bill passed in the Oregon House yesterday with overwhelming bipartisan support and a vote of 55 to 3! It’s expected to do the same in the Senate soon.

  54. https://shastalantern.net/2016/01/special-agent-in-charge-greg-bretzing-linked-to-national-security-breach-fraud-and-corruption-in-salt-lake-city/

    here is a little background on the fbi agent in charge, oh yes ! i can hear you gasping in shock, the fbi ? really ? YES.
    i just have to wonder how involved james comey was in all of this, do you think he was even aware of what his agency was getting into out here, or was he being ill advised by a slick agent who thought he would look really good with a nice feather in his fbi hat ? when corruption rules the day what is there left for folks to do ?
    neo
    attacks against the constitution are like the self infilicted wounds of a mad man

  55. things are getting interesting here in ORYGUN ! some groups here in the state are now trying to go after sheriff GLEN PALMER.
    they are so excited about it … these ill informed bolshevik pocket gophers think they can revoke palmers police license or something, they apparently don’t realize the co sheriff is an elected official who is sworn to uphold the constitution for the people of his county. sheriff is not a policeman though he acts as one, it goes much further than that as he has law enforcement authority over the entire county for one thing, and since he has a sworn oath to go by the constitution that is what he must do. a recall election or loss of a subsequent election is the only way i can imagine this would happen. it will be interesting to see how this will all shake out… palmer is a huge figure in the CSPOA, google it if you are not familiar. the uninformed bolshevik dolts are saying, WHO THE HELL DO THESE SHERIFFS THINK THEY ARE ? the ignorance is just stunning ! among their ranks it has become fashionable to demonize anyone who even mentions the constitution, OH YOUR ONE THOSE POCKET CONSTITUTION RED NECKS…. this is an enigma to say the least ! they must have in their pocket the bolshevik manifesto, this the only reasonable explanation i can muster. when ben carson was aked if he thought a sharia muslim could follow the constitution he said yes, but they would have to be schizophrenic…. good answer, same with these bolshevik radical progressives who moralize to us rednecks about the environment & the global warming hoax. i believe this is all connected to the same agenda we are dealing with here, in my mind EPA, BLM, NOAA, and others,are parasite regulatory agencies like fat ticks on a hound that need to be removed. final word… i hope the exposure of all the corruption state & federal will awaken the sleeping masses.

    neo

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