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URGENT Warning on OR Standoff: Military Special OP Assets Have Been Assigned for Standoff. Keep Women and Children Out of There


In Addition, an Official Oath Keeper Statement on the OR Standoff

Oath Keepers has received very credible information from an active duty source within the special operations community that at least one SOD-X (Reserve/National Guard Special Operations Detachment, see this, this, and this) unit under the command of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) has been tasked for this standoff at the Malheur Wildlife Reserve and moved to the area.   That source contacted one of our long-time members who is a retired Special Forces 1st Sgt (who has known the source for over twenty years).

Now, of course, just because such a unit has been sent to the area for possible action does not mean it will be used.  It may not (so please don’t accuse us of making that claim).  But we DO NOT trust the Obama Administration to do this right, which would be to handle this situation like the Montana Freeman standoff rather than like the Waco standoff.   Anyone who thinks that Obama wouldn’t dare drop the hammer on Ammon and his men (whether by using a military commando unit, or the infamous FBI HRT, which was present at both Ruby Ridge and Waco), is a fool.   As was reported in the Washington Times after the Bundy Ranch standoff ended, the Obama Administration did consider the use of military force during that standoff.  Fortunately, they decided against it, but that doesn’t mean cooler heads will prevail this time around.   And  once again, leftists are frothing at the mouth and demanding blood.  For example, Montel Williams says he is “Totally fine with a massive use of deadly force in Oregon to take out Ammon Bundy” and also said “I’m calling on Govt to end terrorist siege perpetrated by a bunch of hillbilly American Taliban.”

The U.S. government has used military rules of engagement and overwhelming force twice in recent history, with horrific results, and we don’t put anything past this Administration.    At Ruby Ridge, the result was a dead fifteen year old boy, shot in the back by U.S. Marshalls, and a dead mother (shot in the face by an FBI HRT sniper while holding her baby).  At Waco the result was scores of dead women and children, during a military assault using armored vehicles (with Delta Force present and involved, and with local fire-fighters intentionally kept away while the Dividians burned).  So please don’t try to say we are crazy for thinking it may be done again here.  We do hope “the adults in the room” in the Administration and in the federal LEO and military community will keep that from happening, but hope is not an operational plan.  We don’t trust them, and you shouldn’t either, so:

Keep women and children off the friggin X.

Why do we feel the need to say this?  Because we have  seen news footage showing children present at the Malheur Wildlife Reserve over the past few days.  Apparently they were brought there by their parents while they visited with Ammon and crew.    We are told that they are not staying there overnight, but even bringing them for a visit is a mistake.  We also know that several women are staying there 24/7 (apparently including the wife of Blaine Cooper).   We do not need to have the risk of dead women and children in this incident.  It is unconscionable and immoral for anyone to place non-combatant women and children at risk of being in the middle of a firefight or dynamic raid on the armed men occupying that federal wildlife refuge.

This is not a “free speech” barbecue at Bundy Ranch with live music by Jordan Page.   This is a whole different animal.   There should be no women and children there at all.  This is not a family event.  This is an armed occupation of a government building and the only people staying there should be the armed men who are willing to die there with Ammon Bundy and his brothers and a couple of embedded reporters.   If adults want to visit them and put themselves at risk, that is their choice, but don’t bring children.   If a dozen men die in a shootout, that is one thing, but if children die, there will be a civil war.

Oath Keepers

NOTE and UPDATE as of 4am, Wed., Jan 6:   We are already getting flack for even saying this, with people accusing us of spreading “false intel” or rumors, and of course, wild-eyed accusations of us somehow being “traitors” because we don’t want to see women and children put at risk.   It is really a no-brainer that this Administration would at least stage both military and Federal law enforcement Special Response Teams for possible use in this situation.  That is hardly an out-there conspiracy theory. And it should be a no-brainer and common sense to keep women and children clear of such an armed occupation of a federal facility, but apparently it is not, and so we felt duty bound to tell people to keep them away, and exactly why we think it necessary (I will ALWAYS put the safety of women and children first, no matter who it pisses off.  I am not in this for a popularity contest).  So, don’t shoot the messenger.   In addition, last night (Jan 5) Ammon Bundy himself let it be known that he had received information from three independent sources that a dynamic raid of some kind was possibly coming soon.   So there!  – Stewart

 

Short Oath Keepers Statement on this Standoff

I will post a longer statement later, but for now, here is a brief statement on this situation, in general:

Oath Keepers opposes the armed occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge for the reasons already stated here last Friday (I had a hunch Ammon was going to go beyond a peaceful march and protest and was goingto conduct some form of armed direct action).  This is not in keeping with the moral imperative of only using the threat of force in defense when people’s lives are at stake, as at Bundy Ranch in 2014 (where we called on Oath Keepers from across the country to rush to the aid of the Bundy family and protect them from being “Waco’d” by military trained snipers and Special Forces veteran mercenaries).  In this case, neither the Hammonds nor their neighbors were in imminent threat of being murdered, and neither the Hammonds nor their neighbors asked for any form of armed standoff (the Hammonds decided against taking a hard stand).   In fact, they oppose it.  This is being done by outsiders who mislead and deceived locals (violating the vital principle of local control and leadership), deceived the Hammonds, and deceived the patriot movement by luring them in with a peaceful rally against the truly shocking abuses and injustices perpetrated on the Hammond family and then attempting to rope them into a premeditated, manufactured armed standoff.

Both Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne (who we suspect is an agent provocateur) told the locals in the Harney County Committee of Safety, at a public town hall meeting on December 15, 2015, that they, the locals on the committee, would be making the decisions on what was to be done and would be in charge.  In fact, Ammon directly told them:

We have people across the United States that will stand with you, I’ve already explained that.  I’m confident.  But the thing is, it’s not necessarily right, for us, or for the people, to come in here and to make a stand without the people forming and being in control of it.  That’s what this Committee of Safety is.  It is where the people elect this Committee and this Committee is in charge of those that will come in and assist throughout this country, in defending the rights of this people and enforcing the Constitution.  And, I’m not going to dance around what we’re talking about here.  We’re talking about removing these unconstitutional agencies from Harney County.   And bringing the people back up to go ranching, logging, or whatever else.  But the people have to – you, you have to exhibit enough organization to form these committees of safety so that you can charge, and be in charge of the militia.   That’s what it comes down to.  That is the proper way in which this is supposed to happen (emphasis added).

Watch the video yourself:

I agree completely with the above quoted statements by Ammond to the Harney County Committee of Safety.  The people of Harney County do have the absolute right to govern themselves, and to be in charge of, and in control over, whatever is done to secure their rights in their county and state, and they have the right to be in charge of any volunteers from elsewhere who come in to help.   That truly is “the proper way in which this is supposed to happen.”  But unfortunately, Ammon did not respect that right.   Apparently, he did not really trust the people of Harney County to be in charge, and while Ammon told the locals these soothing words about their own control of their destiny, Ammon and Ryan evidently had already planned out this armed takeover of the federal facility at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge and were already staging their outsider men and supplies in the area to do it.  All of this was done without even the knowledge, let alone the consent, of that local Committee of Safety.  The Harney County Committee of Safety is in charge of jack squat.  So much for the consent of the governed, and so much for self-government.

By doing this, as Mike Vanderboegh pointed out, Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have given Obama the best New Years present he could hope for – an example of “militia movement/patriot aggression,” Obama can use to justify his already planned assault on gun rights (taking the focus off of the very real Jihadist terror threat, and allowing Obama to talk about a “right wing terror threat” instead), while Ammon also has the least credibility with, or support and participation from, the locals possible, since they were kept in the dark and blind-sided by this, and also with the least support from the patriot community, who were also blind-sided by Ammon and Ryan Payne.  You can read the Oregon III% statement of opposition here.   For all of the reasons our Associate Editor Brandon Smith articulated here, this standoff was a terrible plan, but one we may be stuck with.   See also the analysis of New Mexico militia leader, Bob Wright.    We support the Hammonds, who have indeed suffered terrible abuse that needs to be brought to light and corrected, and we support the return of western lands to their rightful owners, the people of the western states.   But this armed occupation is bad strategically and tactically.  There will be plenty of opportunities to take a hard stand in defense of ranchers who are taking a stand themselves, such as along the Red River in Texas.   Heck, why didn’t they just find some local ranchers and loggers in Harney County willing to start ranching again, and logging again, on those public lands, and then assign security details to protect them?  That would have been good to go, and the smart move, and we would have FULLY supported it, with deeds not just words, as we have done before, such as at the Sugar Pine mine in Josephine County, OR.   Live your lives as westerners, work your land and act as if the BLM doesn’t exist, and force the Feds to then come after you to stop you, as the clear aggressors, but do it as a united community, with the locals in charge, and we Oath Keepers will be there to back you up, and so will the Idaho and Oregon III%, the Pacific Patriot Network, the Bearded Bastards, etc who have already earned their stripes by showing up before, and they will be joined by many other groups.

A Warning to the Obama Administration:  No Free Waco’s

However, as much as we oppose what Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have done, we must warn the Obama Administration that it does not have free reign to “Waco” the people in this standoff by using deadly military force, such as an SOD-X, Delta Force, or the FBI HRT to kill them all.  The Federal government must respect their right to due process and do all it can to end this standoff peacefully, without loss of life.   It must treat it like the Freeman standoff, not the Waco standoff.   There will be no more free Wacos, as Mike Vanderboegh, Founder of the Three Percenter movement puts it.  We agree.   Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder and President of Oath Keepers

 

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Stewart Rhodes

Stewart is the founder and National President of Oath Keepers. He served as a U.S. Army paratrooper until disabled in a rough terrain parachuting accident during a night jump. He is a former firearms instructor, former member of Rep. Ron Paul’s DC staff, and served as a volunteer firefighter in Montana. Stewart previously wrote the monthly Enemy at the Gates column for S.W.A.T. Magazine. Stewart graduated from Yale Law School in 2004, where his paper “Solving the Puzzle of Enemy Combatant Status” won Yale’s Miller prize for best paper on the Bill of Rights. He assisted teaching U.S. military history at Yale, was a Yale Research Scholar, and is writing a book on the dangers of applying the laws of war to the American people.

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218 comments

    1. Okay, but if not now, then WHEN? This criminal administration is running wild and ignoring our Laws and the Constitution. Barry the dipshit is a traitor, a criminal, and a fraud. We swore an Oath to support the Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic. And this POS is DEFINITELY the ENEMY. I DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT ANOTHER AMERICAN. Certainly not a member of the military or an LEO, BUT, we CANNOT continue to allow this traitor and criminal to continue undermining this Country and our Honor and our Way of Life. Are you saying we should just hope for the best and wait for him to be removed by the next election cycle? He is our ENEMY and I have no doubt he has been trying to kick off another civil war for awhile now, by inflicting little annoyances to piss Americans off. I have no doubt he hopes to create enough unrest so he can declare martial law and declare himself President for Life. But there are millions and millions of us who oppose this tyrant. So WHEN do we DO something about it? When do we say enough is enough? Wait for the military to perform a coup?? That is against our honor and our Oaths. So, it is probably unlikely. It has to be PATRIOTS who LOVE this Country who will say it is enough of this criminal. My Oath has no expiration date. Who better than those who love America the MOST??? ][][][% Semper Fi.

      1. You likely missed my comments on this at the bottom of my post on Friday about the Hammonds where I discussed “when” so I will repeat them here:

        LET OBAMA AND HIS FELLOW TRAVELER MARXIST BUDDIES “STEP ON THEIR DICKS” ON THE GUN ISSUE, AND MAKE A HARD STAND TO RESIST ON THAT

        All of you who are impatient and itching for a fight, put your thinking caps on, and use your heads. Keep your cool, and don’t worry, the fight will come to you soon enough. Obama, and the other anti-gun idiot politicians, such as the Governor of CT, will not be able to resist the temptation to attempt to violate our right to bear arms by executive decree, such as barring anyone put on no-fly list and other “government watch lists” from owning guns – which would include me, by the way, as I am on an “Aviation Security” watch list, and get a special “SSSS” designation every time I fly. I can’t even check in and get a boarding pass from the ticket agent without the airlines calling DHS for permission to let me fly (which usually takes a half an hour), and I get the “full Montey” screening and groping each time.

        Clearly, their intent is to eventually put all of you “dangerous” veterans, patriots, and constitutionalists on such watch lists, designate you as someone who is barred from owning guns, and then use that to disarm you, one at a time. And they actually think we will just roll over and let them do that.

        The idiotic CT Governor, Malloy, is paving the fast track to the next American Civil War/Revolution with his plan to sign an executive order precluding “those on government watch lists” from purchasing or owning firearms. See this, and this. He is actually planning on confiscating the guns of anyone who lives in Connecticut who the Feds put on one of their many watch lists.

        Who can be on those lists? Anyone, and everyone. What is the criteria for being put on such a list? Who knows? What due process is there? None. And Malloy thinks the gun owners of Connecticut, who have already refused to comply with his prior edicts on guns, will just comply and be disarmed. What a delusional fool! He is poking a hornet’s nest while smiling for the cameras.

        Entually, all of us, across this nation, who dare to stand for liberty and the Constitution, will be on one list or another, and what is being done in Connecticut will be done in other states, and at the national level too. Obama is also considering an Executive Order decreeing background checks on private gun sales. And anti-gun weenies in NY want to restrict how much ammo New York state residents can buy. And in California, the police have now been given the green light to unilaterally disarm anyone they don’t think should have a gun, on their say-so alone, without the person even knowing about it or having a day in court, through “Gun Violence Restraining Orders” (GVRO’s). Good! Bring it.

        Let Obama and the other hoplophobes step on their dicks, with both feet, with cleats on. And organize local resistance, to help gun owners, like the old vet in Idaho, who are willing to take a hard stand, and put your muscle behind that hard stand, on the critical issue of guns, IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY (the three most important questions you have to answer are “who’s on your buddy team, who’s on your fire-team, who’s on your squad.”).

        Get organized, get trained, get equipped, and help your neighbors unite in mutual defense and help to train them. Form minuteman companies and Quick Reaction Forces (QRF) in your town and county. Then let “them” come and try to take your guns. Make THAT the modern Lexington and Concord, and we will have the greatest number of Americans on our side, and the greatest number of the current serving military on our side, as possible.

        That is how you do it. Not by trying to force the people of Harney County, Oregon to take a stand they apparently don’t want to take, over land use issues most Americans don’t even understand, and which rural America as a whole essentially gave up on long ago (just a sad fact – decades ago they rolled over and, with few exceptions, let their use of the land be stripped from them by activist judges and federal agencies with the blessings of the U.S. Congress). It will take time and lots of hard work at the local level to organize, educate, and create serious, lasting and effective local resistance on those land use issues in rural America. We should certainly do that, but it will not be done overnight. I think the gun issue is a far, far stronger one to focus on at this time, when it comes to hard stands.

        For the Republic,

        Stewart Rhodes

        1. While I don’t always agree with Stewart, I fully support his position. One major weakness of the patriot movement is the fragmentation that exists between organizations.

          Operations require planning. Objectives must be established, and the planning and logistics required to support the effort for whatever timeframe is expected.

          Each organization has its inherent strengths and weaknesses and the day we learn to operate as a cohesive unit and project a unified front we will truly become a near unstoppable force.

        2. The Hammonds were intimidated into declining the offer of help from the Bundys. Ammon Bundy supposedly spoke with the Hammonds well before this started. Evidently, the government “strongly suggested” that the Hammonds remain silent.

          1. Totally agree the Hammonds were intimidated or/threatened. I feel the Bundy’s frustration. Enough is Enough! After watching the video of OUR government employees burning personal property on purpose just put another notch on my list of disgust for this government. I truly believe we,the people, are going to have to fight to get our country back. Former governments were not perfect (nothing is ever perfect) but at least we never had a President and his non-American inner circle, along with many dimwitted Congress butt-kissers from both sides, tear our Constitution apart, cause as much chaos as they can, put the black/white situation in worse condition than it was during days of slavery, demoralize our military, put targets on the backs of every police officer, put a protective blanket around Muslims and the list could go on far more than a run-on sentence can handle. Everyone gets the drift. Where was PETA? No protests for burnt cattle. People have to take a stand. More people should be in an uproar. What makes anyone think it is going to stop after the government burns all the ranchers out. POWER is addicting, just look at the career politicians. They made their money, they’re rich, now they are in for the power. Everyone commenting has some good points and I agree it has to be organized – country-wide. I am willing to fight injustice and to keep my weapons, property and Country. As far as I am concerned, the Hammonds served their time. In my opinion it was double jeopardy. They served the time they were given.

        3. Great article Stewart! You made the only sane call that could be made regarding the stand off in Oregon. The saddest part of the whole thing, notwithstanding the fact that very uneducated protesters have risked their lives and the lives of their families in such a manner, is the negative publicity that could potentially arise from their very foolish actions.

          From this point on, as noble a cause as it seems this one is, it was in no way worth the major set back that just took place. There will be abundant peaceful and lawful means whereby every unconstitutional action taken by the federal corporation will be met with peaceful, intelligent and very effective complete understanding of the law, thusly stopping the onslaught of the federal government dead in their tracks.

          There are two recent cases in law that have come to light in which two separate United States District Courts were forced to fall silent due to treasonous actions against the Constitution. In both cases, for three months following the court falling ‘sub silentio’, and after the recusal of both judges who incidentally failed to fulfill their obligation for the disposition of the cases, and after review by the Texas Supreme Court, and the replacement of the judges who violated their oaths, there is still no resolution because of the clarity of the Constitution in the matter.

          These judges are up shit creek. The same can be done throughout the nation using the defense provided by the Constitution. It is rock solid. Here is the content of an email I received from the Defendant in the case. It simple but powerful:

          ” The phrase “regarding a debt” appears in the Objection and Demand only because it is part of the definition of “judgment” at 28 U.S.C. 3002(8). The fatal defect in that definition is “arising from a civil or criminal proceeding.” The Constitution gives only limited jurisdiction to federal courts. Power to hear civil and criminal cases requires general jurisdiction.

          Plaintiff United States is “a Federal corporation” (28 U.S.C. 3002(15)) engaged in a purported debt-collection action for breach of fraudulent alleged contract / quasi-contact (general legislation at 26 U.S.C. 6013(g)(1) or (h)(1)).

          All Federal prosecutions for alleged crimes are debt-collection actions.

          The Hammonds Court cannot produce a constitutional authority that gives the Court the capacity to take jurisdiction and enter a judgment, order, or decree in favor of the United States (the supreme Federal corporation: the District of Columbia Municipal Corporation) regarding a debt, in Harney County, Oregon; only Federal territory.

          These characters are merciless. They are in business. The only thing they understand is personal liability for their actions.”

          The facts are clear; The Hammonds Court cannot produce a constitutional authority that gives the Court the capacity to take jurisdiction and enter a judgment, order, or decree in favor of the United States (the supreme Federal corporation: the District of Columbia Municipal Corporation) regarding a debt, in Harney County, Oregon; only Federal territory.

          The only federal territory in located in the 50 Continental States is the District of Columbia. D.C. in addition to the other territories owned by the federal corporation called the UNITED STATES, which are all located outside of the 50 Continental States explicitly owned by the supreme federal corporation are the only territories under the jurisdiction of Mr. Obama, Congress and all United States District Courts.

          Armed with these facts we now have the ability to stop the courts dead in their tracks by exposing this very specific fatal defect in their attempt to claim jurisdiction.

          For more information providing all the facts of these cases that forced the Courts to fall silent, Mr. John Trowbridge has posted all related documents regarding his very recent cases on http://supremecourtcase.wordpress.com.

          No court can produce disclosure of their constitutional authority because it does not exist. Every United States District Court (federal court) possesses only limited jurisdiction. Fatal defect indeed and the necessary tool in our hands to defeat every overreach by the federal corporation.

          This applies to gun control, (un) Affordable Health Care Act a.k.a. Obama Care, all federal (so called agencies), which most claiming to agencies are really not, the Patriot Act and every other piece of legislation emanating from the commercenaries housed at the den of thieves known as the District of Columbia Municipal Corporation.

          This will be a peaceful, effective means to indict every judge in every United States District Court unlawfully usurping legal control from each local community.

          The sooner we research and study these cases out the sooner we will become the worthy adversaries the federal commercenaries deserve.

        4. i am suggesting that oathkeepers make some suggestions on how the oathkeepers “keep the gov from waco’ing” these people. Not to Join the stand off but to stand near or in a ready position to make sure the rule of law be put in place and that due process held to deal with the provocateurs. i am not advocating oathkeepers get involved directly with or for their cause but to suggest how it can be ensured that these people keep from being waco’ed. just because a warning is given to (/))bama “no free wacos” does not mean he wont and if he does… what happens? sitting around warning from miles away will have no intimidation weight or respect.

          i am an oathkeeper and i support this suggestion.

        5. If you agree with me, then we should bombard the gov’t and the media with this idea, hopefully leaving them without arguement and the ability to escalate the situation.

          —All govt has to do is just pack up shop and go home. NO ONE has been hurt. NO PROPERTY has been damaged. Let them sit there ALONE, in a cabin in the woods, with no one to talk to and no one to impress. They will leave as there will be NO PURPOSE for them to be there.
          After they leave and go home, if the Sheriff of that county wishes to do so, he could issue warrants for trespassing. A misdemeanor. They can pay fines and not have to appear.—

          WE, as fellow citizens should contact these men with some ‘constructive criticism’. IF THEY TRULY MEAN WELL, they can undo some of the damage done and prevent it from happening again.

          1. Just want to be clear. By “prevent it from happening again” I refer to unorganized, not well thought out, responses that would start out set up to fail from the beginning or worse, be a detriment to our mission.
            Stewart reported to us that NO ONE wanted us there, so the smart thing to do would be evacuate. Now, even though Ammond’s mission might be justified, they’ve become a negative thing due to misrepresentation to the community, possibly questionable characters involved with conflicting interests, and the fact that the people the story was built around asked them to not be present. To me, that is NOT the time to go all in. However, at this point, they are no different than hippies having a ‘sit in’. The good news is, it has created a lot of discussion that has produced a lot of good ideas. Our communication and organization will make the difference in how effective we will be.

            If we aren’t organized and don’t have a well thought out plan, we will have a lot more difficult journey!

        6. So this has been festering at max levels for no less than the last 7 years and because the public wouldn’t/Doesn’t understand just let it go again and,. again, with the public not knowing or understanding because no one wants to take this opportunity to organize and educate the public, we should all just go back too prepping. practicing, Training getting ready- FOR WHAT? So we can wait for the next abuse and then do all the Getting going , prepping Training all over again just to sit again and do nothing again.
          That lil ol Tree of liberty is getting mighty parched and limbs are falling off, maybe only 2 leaves left at the top and we Wait and Wait till we wake up one morning seeing the Back Sides of the Fema camp signs.
          Might as well get some shut eye.
          Why is it that leaders always suck and incite,m yet they never lead after all their Braggadocio. and chest thumping.

          1. Yep.

            I see a plethora of people skulking in the tall weeds of various ‘Liberty’ sites and blogs, whilst freely offering criticism of the Bundy action and of the Bundy’s themselves.

            What I do not see is any appreciable and critically necessary refocusing of what some see as a shit-sandwich, onto the real underlaying issue…that being the rogue fed-gov land tyranny that sparked this and so many other such actions by fed-up people at the end of ‘their’ rope/tolerance.

            THIS is the real issue at hand now that the Hammonds have surrendered and their imprisonment is no longer a valid operational cause.

            It seems to me that Bundy made clear that their actions at this point are geared toward standing down this federal land tyranny.

            That said, this Oathkeeper is fully supportive of the underlaying cause and regardless of what I assess their operational planning and reasoning to be, or whether or not I would have done as they did…I assess that there should be open verbal and moral support for backing down Leviathan in this land-tyranny venue.

            The cause has been engaged, lthe opposing sides are arrayed, let the situation be calmed, refocused and subsequently rallied around so that the field is not willingly surrendered to Leviathan.

            There should be NO such stance/contest of principle and Liberty that is willingly ceded to Leviathan.

            It is no accident that the ‘wildlife refuge’ is the staging area for their actions, since it is central to the situation with the Hammonds and central to other private landowners being tyranized, harrassed and impeded of the use of their Property. The Hammonds have had their Life, Liberty and Property directly and negatively targetted and impacted.

            Life…Liberty…Property…The cornerstones of a free people, free individuals and a free nation.

            Yet much of what is seen is the mouthing of, in essence, not the right time, not the right cause, not the right people.

            When the fuck does anyone expect the ‘time’ to be right? Only when the jackboots are kicking in YOUR door? Your friend’s door? Your neighbor’s?

            This situation was not of my choosing, but the core reasons for it are valid and a stand has been taken in an overall righteous cause, therefore, my verbal, written and moral support is given.

            Men of grim resolve have placed their lives and freedom on the line for principles that all of us should believe in.

            No shame in folks not rucking up and heading to the fray for obvious reasons, but all free men should at least set aside their personal issues with the ‘occupation’, certain of the players and the method taken to kick it off and subsequently realize that the protest and refusal to comly with federal tyranny surrounding such land issues is a righteous and valid cause.

            We all should refocus this actual situation and rally support around the principles of their stance and the cause that it is rooted in.

            Puke-sick of what seem to be turf wars and other personal issues preventing moral and other support for the righteous core cause.

        7. I have thought a lot about this situation and I’ve come up with this. As someone once said, never let a good crisis go to waste. There are at least 1 if not more people in the group up there that are not who they say they are, with that in mind I think that once all the players are in place, one of these people will take a shot at one of the FBI agents to either maim or kill, kill would be better for their purposes and then its game on. Once this happens it gives them the ability to roll in there with everything they have and flatten the place, this could flash back on all of us as well. If you don’t think could happen well I have some swamp land in Nevada to sell you.

        8. There will NOT only be NOT another free Waco, there will also NOT be another free Kent State massacre / slaughter, NOT another free Ruby Ridge, NOT another free New Orleans where the people of that city were disarmed.

          With ALL do respect to President and CEO of Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes, and, EVERYONE on here, in regards to, and, concerning the wild life refuge federal buildings take over by Constitutional Militia, Patriots, and III%, PLEASE consider HOW MUCH, HOW OFTEN, and, what has been taken over by the hands of the tyrannical, oppressive, unConstitutional federal government, as they CONTINUE to take, strip, seize, and confiscate American Citizens lands, farms, ranches, and, other possession, while at the same time, this TREASONOUS government continues to trample on and down trodden and outright shred the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence!!!

          What’s been going on in Burns, OR, with Constitutional Militia, Patriots, and, III% is 3 fold:

          1. BECAUSE of the way the Hammond family has been treated, and, the father and son having to return to prison to serve another, and, longer sentence, after they served and did their time already.

          2. The taking of the wild life refuge federal buildings were in RESPONSE to mr. obola’s further, dictatorial, tyrannical, oppressive executive order, of the assault weapons ban, pushed by the united nations and new world order’s arms trade treaty / small arms treaty.

          3. BECAUSE of the continued, out of control, big, tyrannical, oppressive, criminal, corrupt government abuses, crimes, corruption, and, unConstitutional acts, with the RECENT problem with bureau of land management, once again, overstepping and overreaching Constitutional lines and boundaries, as they further continue to confiscate and seize American Citizens legally and lawfully owned lands, farms, and ranches, that is the other reason why the federal buildings at the wild life refuge have been seized by Constitutional Militia, Patriots, and, III%.

          This is NOT about wanting to go to war with the federal government, and, NOT to overthrow the government. This is a direct, right, correct, and, CONSTITUTIONAL response, a stand, and, resistance against an out of control, big, tyrannical, oppressive, corrupt, criminal government, overreaching and overstepping Constitutional boundaries and lines.

          If it is NOT dealt with, if “WE THE PEOPLE” do NOT make and take a stand here, and, resist, TOGETHER, UNITED, then, I ask, WHEN?! WHEN is the time, and, WHERE is the place?!

          PLEASE HERE ME OUT!!!

          LOOK IT!!!

          If “WE THE PEOPLE” wait until EVERYTHING has been taken from U.S., and, lost, we will NOT be able to stand up, resist, rebel, for the very sources, means, and resources readily available to U.S. at this time, will be taken, stripped, confiscated, and seized by an out of control, big, tyrannical, oppressive, corrupt, criminal government.

          At that time, it will ALREADY be too late, and, we will NOT be able to stand up, resist, and rebel!!!

          If NOT now, then, WHEN?!

          If NOT Burns, OR, then, WHERE?!

          WE ALL KNEW that eventually, inevitably, and, imminently, this was going to happen!!! It was NOT a matter of if, but, WHEN, and WHERE. We didn’t know exactly for sure of the WHEN and WHERE, but, NOW, we do!!!

          Do I want another war on U.S. Soil?! NO!!! NOT at all!!! NOT by any means!!!

          HOWEVER, because of this big, out of control, tyrannical, oppressive, harassing, terrorizing, criminal, corrupt government’s continued abuses, as they continue to take more and more and more power and control over the American Populace, further trampling on and shredding the Constitution of the United States of America, the Sworn Oath to defend and protect it, the Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, Freedoms, Liberties, and Justices for ALL, and, the American People, ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!

          When is ENOUGH, ENOUGH?!

          I believe, think, and feel that the time is right and now, at the very least, to have happening what’s happening in Burns, OR presently, with Constitutional Militia, Patriots, and, III% making a stand, just like at the Bundy Ranch. And, though this incident is somewhat different from what happened at the Bundy Ranch in Nevada, it’s also VERY, VERY similar, BECAUSE of bureau of land management continuing to UNLAWFULLY, ILLEGALLY, and, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY confiscating and seizing American Peoples’, farmers, and ranchers lands.

          The situation is NOT exactly the same, but, similar.

          AGAIN, allow me to reiterate, if we wait any longer, to make and take a stand, to resist and rebel, until EVERYTHING has been taken, stripped, confiscated, and, seized from “WE THE PEOPLE,” it will ALREADY be too late, and, we will have NOTHING left to take and make a stand, resist, and rebel with!!!

          Am I making any sense at alll?!

          What’s happening in Burns, OR is because of the Hammond father and son having to return to prison to serve a longer sentence, because of bureau of land management UNLAWFULLY, ILLEGALLY, and, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY confiscating and seizing American Citizens’, farmers and ranchers lands, AND, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE of mr. obola’s continued and further dictatorial, tyrannical, oppressive executive orders of gun control and assault weapons ban, under the united nations and new world order’s small arms treaty / arms trade treaty.

          “WE THE PEOPLE” have got to take and make a stand, resist, and rebel sometime!!! If we wait until EVERYTHING is gone, lost, taken, stripped, confiscated, and seized by out of control, big, tyrannical, oppressive government, it will ALREADY be too late!!!

          THEREFORE, it’s HIGH TIME we take and make a CONSTITUTIONAL stand, resist, and, rebel, NOW!!!

          IF our Founding Fathers were allowed to visit U.S. today, perhaps they may say, “What took you so long?!” “It’s about time!!!” “Get out there and take back your Constitutional Republic!!!”

          NO DOUBT!!!

          What Constitutional Militia, Patriots and III% are doing in Burns, OR, and, when they were at Bundy Ranch in Nevada, are completely within the confines of the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, and, Declaration of Independence.

          ALL of this that is happening in, across, and throughout the entire U.S. is planned, orchestrated, happening on purpose, by design, for the agenda and propaganda of the new world order.

          WE KNEW this was going to eventually, inevitably, and, imminently happen, we just did NOT know when or where. NOW, we do know the when, and where, and, that time is NOW, and, in Burns, OR.

          If it did not or was not going to happen there, it was eventually, inevitably, and imminently going to happen elsewhere.

          I AGREE that the women and children should NOT be present anywhere near Burns, OR.

          I AGREE, that, NO DOUBT, this will likely be turned into another Waco, Texas, Ruby Ridge, or, similar incident, OR, altogether different incident, and, there ends up being a fire fight.

          ALL well and good, fine and dandy, I have my Constitutional Militia’s, Patriots’, and, III%s’ backs.

          If things REALLY DO end up going south in Burns, OR, we have a DUTY, RIGHT, and OBLIGATION, UNDER the Declaration of Independence, to assist and go to the aid of our Brothers in Arms, to make and take a stand, resist, and rebel against this big, out of control, tyrannical, oppressive, harassing, terrorizing, corrupt, criminal government.

          Just LOOK at ALL of the abuses of power, what’s been confiscated and seized, the out right murder by the federal government toward U.S. Citizens, their properties, lands, homes, possessions, families, and neighbors!!!

          It’s NEVER going to end if we do not make and take a stand, resist, and, rebel now!!!

          This government is NEVER going to stop, UNLESS either a Miracle happens, OR, UNLESS they’re forced to stop!!!

          Redress of grievances that have been listed and written and sent in to our Congressmen and Senators, Governors, voting, protesting… NOTHING has worked, and, the government continues and further takes MORE and MORE and MORE control and power, shredding MORE and MORE and MORE of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence!!!

          We’re out of options!!! NOTHING else is going to work, OTHER THAN what’s clearly written in the Declaration of Independence, which, as U.S. Citizens, and, “WE THE PEOPLE,” have the RIGHT, DUTY, and, OBLIGATION to do.

          ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!

          If NOT now, then, WHEN, and WHERE?! If we continue to wait, it will become too late, because we will LOSE EVERYTHING, and, we won’t be able to make and take a stand, resist, and rebel at that time!!!

          What’s happening in Burns, OR, and, what happened at the Bundy Ranch in Nevada, and, EVERYTHING that’s been going on for decades in this Country, is exactly and precisely the reasons why the first American Revolution happened to begin with: land, properties, and possessions were being taken, stripped, confiscated, and seized; gun control and confiscation, and, taxation WITHOUT representation, as the American Colonists were trying to set up their own, separate, sovereign, INDEPENDENT NATION, away from and apart from English / British tyranny, oppression, and dictatorship.

          The same things are happening, NOW, TODAY, in Burns, OR, and, in MANY other places in the NOT too distant past, ALL over and across the Nation.

          OF COURSE, “WE THE PEOPLE” will NOT fire the first shot. I know that Constitutional Militia, Patriots, and III% will NOT fire the first shot. The first shot will ring out from the federal government, and, when it does, American Revolution 2 and Civil War 2 WILL erupt across this Nation, and, PATRIOTISM ALWAYS spreads like wildfire!!!

          Do I want this?! NO!!! I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN AT ALL!!! HOWEVER, this seems to be the ONLY OPTION left available, and, it’s eventual, inevitable, and imminent!!!

          On a more positive note, I strongly believe, that, with the help of the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF, that HE will grant HIS GRACE, STRENGTH, COURAGE, and, RESOLVE, to “WE THE PEOPLE,” to do what is reasonable and necessary to bring this Country back to her founding roots, Constitutional Republic, with small, limited government, as “one Nation, under GOD.”

          The TRAITORS, OATH BREAKERS, guilty of TREASON, are afraid, fearful, and scared, and, they NEED TO BE, because of this big, out of control, tyrannical, oppressive, harassing, terrorizing, criminal, corrupt, TREASONOUS government!!!

          Their crimes, corruption, and, TREASON have been exposed, and, that makes them scared, afraid, and, fearful, and, they’re desperate to end what’s going on, in any way, shape, or form possible, to do whatever it takes.

          The time is, NOW, and, Constitutional Militia, Patriots, and III% ALL over and across this great Nation need to be ready at a moments notice for a battle, fight, and war!!!

        9. We’re ALREADY on watch lists.

          EVERYONE is on some kind of a watch list, in some way, shape, form, or another.

          We’re ALL spied on, surveilled, monitored, tracked, and, followed, ever since 9 – 11 – 2001, Bush’s unConstitutional, corrupt, criminal Patriot Act, and obola’s unConstitutional, corrupt, criminal National Defense Authorization Act.

          The government ALREADY KNOWS who has the weapons and firearms, at least, if they’re already registered.

          That’s the unConstitutional purpose and reason for background checks and unConstitutional firearms registration, before purchasing your weapon.

          The FBI and BATFE already knows who has the firearms, IF they’ve been registered.

          That’s NOT the point, though.

          The point is, they’re coming for our guns eventually, inevitably, and imminently, BECAUSE of united nations and new world order small arms treaty / arms trade treaty, to disarm the America Populace.

          It’s orchestrated, happening on purpose, by design, for the agenda and propaganda of the new world order.

          It’s going to happen, but, NOT WITHOUT a fight!!!

          “WE THE PEOPLE” WILL make and take a stand, resist, and, rebel!!!

          It’s already happening!!!

          IT’S ALREADY BEGUN in Burns, OR, and, ABOUT to go National, to stand, resist, and, rebel!!!

          What they’re doing in Burns, OR, is REASONABLE and NECESSARY, and, they’re doing EVERYTHING correctly, WITHIN and UNDER the confines and constraints of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence.

          The above video, and, others on Youtube, and, All News Pipeline, proves that!!!

          What else are “WE THE PEOPLE” to do?!

          We have ALREADY done EVERYTHING in our power to address the government, Congress, Senate, House of Representatives, and, Supreme Court, for a redress of grievances, and, they will NOT heed or listen to or hear the voice of “WE THE PEOPLE!!!”

          There is ONLY one option left at this point, and, it’s FINALLY BEGUN in Burns, OR.

          If it were NOT to happen there, and, at this time, such a time as this, it would eventually, inevitably, and, imminently happen elsewhere.

        1. what they are doing, is something right. STAR SPRANGLED BANNER.SAYS the land of the free and the home of the brave. you brave men up there, make sure you take a double look, with your agreement(NOT CONTRACT^**$(#).when ever it gets that far. on the back of a one dollar bill, ITS SAYS IN GOD WE TRUST. Whatever happens.Hopefully, the American public, that these men are representing, will start reading the headline news a little bit more.or,GOD WILL NOT TRUST US

      2. Stewart, I agree completely IF in fact this is what those two guys did thus far. At this point they should all just slip out of there to defuse what may come. However, I do NOT agree with the thinking that the Federals should treat this as they did the Freemen situation. I live in that area, and was one of the people called up to over-watch HRT, and then immediately visited by MT Marshals and asked to remain in my home until it was over, due to the nature of my military service. However, I also remember and know full well that the only reason the federals did not engage, was because they were told in no uncertain terms that if they did, not one of them would leave MT alive. I see the Bundy ranch event having like attributes, but not this one at all. This was freaking dumb-ass of the highest order in my book, and may be just the pretext needed for the fed to jam it into overdrive. In fact, maybe it should be the O.K er’s and other known militia cadre that goes in there and brings them all out before anything else occurs. Much in the same way Gen. JG Gritz did back then in MT.

      3. Meanwhile, 50 of our special ops team are pinned down in Afghanistan…….haven’t been able to follow it, but it looks like typical Obama / Extraction 17. Setting up our best to die.

      4. The man has a point. If not now when? Trying to do the Right thing is going to become thrust on us.Time though is for clear thought and dry powder. This cannot be won without disaster,both physical and political.

      5. Now I know that Oath Keepers are also on the wrong path, as well as the Bundy movement that invaded my wonderful state, Oregon, uninvited and unwelcome. Go home.

        1. You also realize if those folks were Muslims they’d be dead already, or Hispanics , or blacks or unarmed peaceniks.

          1. Perhaps, but remember that the Black Panthers marched with loaded rifles to the California State Capitol in Sacramento back in the day, and they were not killed. But then again, they were armed, and it is far, far easier to abuse unarmed people. So, perhaps you are at least partially correct, but it may well be because of the armed reaction that such a move would surely elicit rather than some bias in favor of skin color.

          2. Most all of whom initiate the circumstances that become out of their mis-behaving non-compliant control until they find themselves in unwelcome consequences.

          3. Don’t fool yourself, If they were Muslims they would be given(by Obama) EBT cards, a condo, a welfare check, and a car.

      6. DJ, Your absolutely right!!!!

        , too many people view this type of incidence as NEVER THE RIGHT TIME… Immoral for women and children to be there..blahhh blahhh blahhh

        BUT NOT immoral FOR Lon Horiuchi to show up and MURDER WOMEN!! Yea thats ok, but don’t stand up for your beliefs, ITS NEVER the time to rock the boat apparently.

        Taking things too far?.Yea patriots showing up for Unalienable rights is taking things too far…

        But The Governemtn can commit HIGH TREASON, MURDER, FALSE FLAG TERROR ATTACKS, DOMESTIC TERRORISM, RAPE, Etc etc etc etc…. and that’s ok fine and dandy?

        Have you seen the kids victim photos of Waco? Literally contorted and BENT IN HALF backwards from violent spasms from Chemical weapons… How about the man who was run over with a actually MILITARY TANK… I believe his coat and leg were stuck in the tracks if you remember… How about the FBI shooters with fully automatic “MACHINE GUNS” (that was for the liberals dissing people with regular guns) gunning down unarmed children and women near the kitchen… ALL CAUGHT ON FILM…

        They are the dumb a$$ fools that took things too far!! Fu%$ those pieces of evil filthy shi%, they have chosen their path and those paths lead to hell.

    2. I agree too. BUT, regardless of the “righteousness” of the participants, if there is a “WACO” that comes out of this, I believe there could be a general and very angry response from a majority of the American people, and I don’t mean at the ballot box. This administration is so heavy-handed, and acting so contrary to the US Constitution that it might appear to SOME(cough, cough) that we are living in a dictatorship.

      While I want to believe that the Constitutional form of government will survive the Obama administration, none of the actions of these people have led me to believe that they care that they are leading us down a very short, sad road to the destruction of our country.

  1. I do think they are doing what has to be done, I don’t like it, but, the fed gov has become a terror to this nation. They rob, they oppress and ignore laws, this is a lawless nation , a nation under tyranny. This I suspect is just the beginning , if the people see no other recourse they will fight.

      1. KrisAnne Hall explains it well and as I believe and understand it. The US Government was never given the authority to control 28% of the US lands; in fact, the lands are supposed to be controlled by the States upon admittance into the Union.

        If I understand correctly, the Hammonds were charged with Terrorism and thus the large prison sentence for a ‘controlled’ burn, a burn that many landowners have often performed. See the burn performed by the BLM starting at 3:15 in this video and see if their actions don’t involve terror and wanton destruction.
        https://youtu.be/2zvrrQbjepc

        Though the actions and timing might not seem appropriate, there are limits to how much bullying anyone can take.

      2. WE ARE TRYING TO GET MESSAGES IN AND OUT, THE NATION WANTS THE UPDATES , THE STATES ARE BLACKED OUT ON COVERAGE ! ,

  2. Stewart, I met you at the Nevada standoff and respect what you are doing. You make good points but I think that the Bundy decision still has merit because this issue is much bigger than the Hammonds. Even without Hammonds consent, the move that Bundy and others are making is to call attention to similar issues across the country and Bundy is right, if they don’t act now, it may be too late to ever act. The Hammonds were threatened to cut off contact with the Bundys or face severe consequences. The Bundys themselves were in jeopardy. I appreciate your warning to the feds who may decide a massive show of force is the answer. It is not the answer and will be met with an appropriate response.

      1. Your are correct Stacy. KrisAnne Hall said all that needs to be said on this issue. It would be in the best interest of the feds to back off. Go to krisAnneHall.com for more good stuff!

    1. Lol, yeah right, I’ll believe it when I see it. There was no massive response anytime pigs murdered innocents recently and got away with it. Regardless of what you think about some of the latest incidents where various African Americans were murdered by police, they surely deserved their day in court, their due process. Yet zero response from threepers, oath keepers, etc. Either we all deserve due process or none of us do.

    2. I agree with INPLAINSITE, this nation is getting weaker,weaker and weaker and that’s the plan IMV. while we as a nation have the dollar,health, and food in our stomact, i think it is overdue for some kind of ” pressure ” and solid planned action. We should not wait for them to do something stupid ** BUT FORCE THEM TO DO SOMETHING STUPID ( THE OTHRER WAY AROUND)

  3. As much as I like and admire Stewart Rhodes, I have to disagree with this article. He is being far too optimistic.

    Whether children die or not, feds shooting those Militia volunteers in Oregon will cause ripples in the pond that the Obamunists are simply not prepared for. Neither are the rest of us. We have all been waiting for one group of Patriots to “draw a line in the sand” and the Malheur federal compound is, for better or for worse, where that line has been drawn. The gauntlet has been thrown down, and cannot be “un-thrown”. From here, it gets really ugly, and affects everyone.

    Such an act by the feds would certainly result in blowback from our nation’s Patriots That is not a threat, but merely an observation that anyone with the good sense that God gave a waterbug can see for themselves.

    Worse, the Obamunists now find themselves between a rock and a hard place, and put themselves there by their own arrogance and incompetence. The HAVE to respond with force. In their warped, psychotic minds, they simply have no choice but to kill everyone at that location.

    If the feds do NOT respond with force, then they risk more armed Patriot groups taking over more federal facilities all over our nation. If enough federal facilities are seized by armed citizen groups, then the machinery of what is widely perceived as a hostile occupation government would just simply grind to a halt.

    Once the Obamunists *do* use force against those Patriots in Oregon, then it becomes much more likely that Patriots elsewhere would choose to extend the same treatment to federal employees everywhere else, nationwide, not just in and around Oregon.

    Once the Obamunists *do* use force in Oregon, it could all very easily escalate into the nationwide bloodletting that is described in John Ross’ novel “Unintended Consequences”.

    This situation will inevitably blow up in the faces of our federal Overlords, but the utterly predictable nationwide blowback from Patriots that will inevitably follow is unlikely to deter the federal jackbooted thugs from using force against the Militia volunteers in Oregon.

    So, the question of “when and where will the next Revolution begin?” appears to have been answered. It will begin with the first shots fired at the Malheur federal compound in Oregon.

    Who the players might be, and how the armchair quarterbacks second-guess their first play has become entirely moot at this point. The coin has been tossed, the players have lined up, and both sides are now silently leaning forward, waiting for the whistle to be blown. The time for talk has clearly ended and we are now seconds away from Game Time.

    Our Second American Revolution is right now just one “shot heard around the world” from kick-off. Once the feds use force against those Patriots in Oregon, then our nation marches straight into a “John Ross outcome”, followed by Civil War.

    Gentle people, Buy More Λmmo, while you still can. Doing so is *still* the only viable treatment for ODDD (Obamunist Douchebag Distrust Disorder). Doing so is *still* the only remaining path to Liberty.

    Support your local Militia and/or your local Oath Keepers. Be the Resistance. This won’t end pretty, Λmerica.

    1. Already the Bundy’s are talking to the feds and saying they will leave if the people in the Community want them to leave. this was a very stupid and ill equipped attempt on taking a stand. If the Bundy’s with their tail tucked between their legs then it’s sets back the Patriotic movement immensely. Whose going to support another attempt by the militia after the big talk about this one, then having them give up after a week. I’m all for taking a stand but let it be the right one. The Hammonds gave themselves up peacefully. Sort of takes the sting out of the revolution don’t ya think.

      1. I would like nothing more than the Bundy ‘kids’ give up peacefully – revolution be damned! Ryan Payne can and should stay there.

      2. It’s not the revolution it IS a stand, it is a statement, and a reminder that the stand-off at Bundy ranch was a symptom of a much larger problem which continues unabated, that many other ranchers risk losing everything too. So, why aren’t we better prepared? Where have we drawn a line in the sand? What have we done to inform more people and unite more supporters? It appears that we aren’t even able to stand up for each other, much less come to a consensus on what that “right” stand would be. And we’d better get it straight damned soon.

    2. I totally agree with you on this the government has overstepped thier bounds over and over again we have petitioned the government over and over again, we have voted and voted for change but it never came. So what else is there that we haven’t done? Even anonymous is going to help by hacking the drones and ddos the BLM. So they cannot function I am both Patriot and anonymous. We are legion, we never forgive, we never forget, it is too late to expect us.

    3. One thing i want to point out is that this didnt start with the most recent occupant of the white house, the government becoming what it is has taken a long, long time. There are many many so called representatives in DC who are far more guilty of creating this mess.
      The reality is WE are no longer represented, no matter who gets elected.

      1. I agree completely. there is no left and right red states blue state. They all suck equally and should be taken to the woodshed accordingly.

    4. I respectfully disagree with your premise. I think that you have somehow convinced yourself that this is our next “Lexington and Concord” moment. I can assure you, that it is not.

      Look at this board. Look at how divided the responses from these people are. And you think that some guy from Michigan or South Carolina is going to drive to Oregon to take up this cause?

      Look, Obama needs “crazed Patriots” to stupidly fire the first shot. That would give him the initiative. These guys are playing right into his hands. Short of this ill timed action, Obama has lost face. Record numbers of non patriots in states like NY and CT are arming themselves. His political agenda is a widespread failure. Why are these guys stupidly handing him a victory? Hmm……

      Please understand that liberty minded people need to do nothing more than continue to purchase firearms and support the second amendment. This is where the real victory is achieved. There is no need for any violence at all. Beware of anyone who tries to convince you otherwise.

    5. Finally!!! Someone brings up that fantastic plan of John Ross! How easily this can all end in a whimper…

  4. I knew the civility would last long Barry didn’t want to take attention away from his dog and pony show today.

  5. Good call Stewart.
    There’s a real chance someone can get hurt now though. I pray cool heads prevail

  6. This was not the time nor the place for this. They should take up law enforcement and go home before its to late and they come out in body bags. They only made the righ look worse.

  7. Regardless if we agree or disagree with the actions of those Patriots in Oregon, if the Obama administration uses the military to attack Americans, this is war! The Constitution clearly states no use of US military on our soil, against our people. I and many of my brothers took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Don’t cross that line!

    1. As it is written. No standing army shall be on American soil with intent to control the Citizens but at the request of the Citizens to Asist in a Change of Corrupt Government!!

  8. I am glad to hear you speak Stewart. I agree with you. Yet, who are we kidding? We ARE in a civil war! We HAVE been overrun by tyranny. Is this the right way to go about it relative to this incident? I am not sure, but I DO KNOW that there MUST BE AN INCIDENT one way or another! NONE of us want bloodshed, but what other recourse is there when we are being marched off to prison, one by one, every year, year after year!!! Property, liberty and life being taken at ‘their’ every whim! And there is NO END in sight! There HAVE been incidents taking place before our very eyes as far back as Waco and Ruby Ridge, and I am embarrassed that I did not charge into the midst of those lawless bastards at those times.
    You know as well as I that dying is not a question at all. It is how we live up until that final moment.
    If any of us can communicate with these patriots and convince them to stand down, that is my choice. But we ALL know that to stand together is a must. These lawless people understand NOTHING that does not THREATEN them!
    Every DAY ‘they’ are inventing new ‘laws’ that constrict our very ability to carry our weapons across state lines! ‘They’ are not going to stop of their own accord.
    If I could, I would ask that you, Cal, Brandon, Edwin Vieira, ChrisAnne Hall, Sheriff Mack and his Constitutional Sheriffs, Larry Pratt and others come together NOW in some physical meeting to publicly state our UNITY in expressing our grievances as one unit! Would we get some real response? Probably not! But our conscience would be free, KNOWING the only course that is left.
    I am one of many who cannot sleep well KNOWING that what must happen will NOT be easy. Yet, standing together with men of your caliber makes it a RIGTHEOUS PLEASURE!
    I say all this, and I am going to sleep in my own bed tonight! I CAN’T STAND the fact that others are IN PRISON for simply living their OWN LIVES LIKE GOOD MEN!
    At your service with much gratitude,
    Robert D.

  9. I will agree with all but I think it may be on everyone minds is that who ever Fires the first shot and I can Guaranty it will be the Government that will do that . The Patriots will be blamed for firing the first shot . The media will be removed so they can`t witness and right about it . The media on the inside well never see daylight again. So in that I pray for all involved and all involved use your commonsense and think.

  10. Leaving to one side that the Bundy group does not qualify as a constitutional “Militia”, its tactic of staging what could be called a “sit in” is exactly parallel to the “sit ins” of the civil-rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s, and the student anti-war movement in the 1960s and 1970s, in which protesters against perceived oppression by rogue public officials “occupied” segregated lunch counters, university buildings, and so on (usually illegally, under color of the laws of those days) in order to send important political messages to the country at large. To make that point, though, no one in the group needs (or ought) to be armed. At this stage, only the moral high ground needs to be taken, which can be accomplished with entirely pacific tactics on the protesters’ part. Win the hearts and minds of the undecided and uncommitted among the great mass of common Americans by demonstrating the righteousness of the cause, and everything else will follow. The very first definition of “terrorism” is “a mode of government by intimidation”. That is what needs to be demonstrated to the general public, which can best be accomplished in the manner in which the civil-rights activists operated.

    1. I would argue that this event ha made all of the positive hay it’s going to on its present course. I was at Bundy’s for a month during the last event. We did what we needed to and went home. I set up a goal we were going to meet which was when Cliven said they felt safe enough for us to leave and we accomplished that and left. I also fought hard to change the impression of those that were there, to humanize them if you will. This event has little public support and I believe was poorly planned. I have talked to leadership on site and there isn’t an exit strategy. The goals are lofty and admirable but unattainable in the near term. I am headed there to talk to my friends and see if we can find or if they are willing to develop an exit strategy. There will be many more situations in the future that public opinion would support. There is no need to lose good patriots on this venture we’ll need them later.

      1. If you are the Jerry I think you are – I’m the fellow who did not pray with you (no offense given or taken, remember?). As you and I know the Bundy boys are good people. I DO NOT want to see them get killed . .. there will be hell to pay.

        Stay on yellow alert around Ryan Payne. Don’t make the same mistake twice. Best wishes to you, my friend.

    2. Respectfully speaking, Mr. Vieira, what you are saying is too much of a stretch. I think you are too motivated by the desire to avoid violence.

      I too would like very much to avoid violence but that avoidance has a limit too. I’m going to take a knee, wait and see while remaining in yellow alert.

  11. If we let these men fall, it will forever divide us. And when the time comes there will be far less to stand and act. Whether you agree with these tactics or not, those are our brothers and sisters holed up in that building. there are 2 types of folks in this movement. Those who have felt the sting of this governments tyranny; and those who have read about it. All those who keep saying we must use the laws and courts have never been that route. I have.. The law only applies to US. The court system is corrupt and fixed against justice. Even if you have the high ground this system will keep you in court so long you end up bankrupt having to sell the land you were fighting for to pay defense fees. No peaceful means will deter these people. Force is all that will even make them think about running over us and trampling our rights. Were I able and had the means I would be right beside Ammon Bundy. Hell I’d start walking but it would be over months before I arrived. What these men have done needs to happen in every city and state of this nation. The people need to take the seat of government from these traitors. And I am not anti government. I fully support government. But not a corrupt out of control bureaucracy that tramples my rights and freedoms. All options have been exhausted. If you won’t stand and fight with these brave men then get out of the way of those who will. Condemning these men’s actions was wrong. Because we all know where this country is headed and it is going to be bloody. Every 3%er and oathkeeper in this country should be supporting these guys. They are about to give up their lives for what is right. We all know the evil going on with the alphabet agencies all across the land. Man will only be pushed so far. Can only watch injustice for so long, eventually he must fight back.

    1. OP, you are correct we cannot leave our brothers and sisters to twist in the wind. However, this plan was not only poorly conceived and poorly executed it was done under false pretenses as he knew he would not get the backing so he tried to force everyone’s hand and I think that is where we all have a problem. These brothers and sisters are in danger because they where put there without having been given all of the facts by a deceitful attention seeker and now because of the deceit of a few they will suffer real consequences and whether they are the ultimate price or several years in Leavenworth they where led there by leaders who had no objective and certainly no plan for withdraw and had no problem putting them there with the brilliant plan of “We will just wing it”. If anything happens it falls squarely on the shoulders of those who decided the fates of everyone involved on the ground and might have just decided the entire fate for all of us. This thing was so ill conceived that he doesnt even have the correct assets with him to mount a cognizant and coherent reason why he is doing it in a way that the American People would understand. Im not sorry to say that i am pissed off at those shit birds for thinking they could do something that they are not only unprepared to do, but unqualified to do. He has no clue what he is doing in the realm of Media and because he is not savvy the media with his help has made this about the Bundy Stand 2.0 then the real issue of the BLM’ 40 year campaign of terror and misdeeds. This is a Media war and Bundy was beaten so bad it looked like a one legged man in an ass kicking competition. Whenever you mske a statement to the media you first WRITE IT DOWN AND PRACTICE IT! SO YOU DON’T LOOK LIKE A REBEL WITHOUT A CLUE! Even the marginally sympathetic are now out of our camp because of him and his boys, they think we are Anti Government and want to overthrow it! Thanks Boys, great goddamn job! As far as Im concerned he cant be trusted and we should therefore never lend a hand ever again nor should he be in any way shape or form associated with any movement. He blew his wad and and it went with a fizzle. He is the type that will get people killed to satisfy his own ego. He had an ulterior motive from the jump and not only used the other groups whose State he was a guest of, but he put lives at risk.

  12. From a tactical standpoint, I fail to grasp the significance of Special Ops Assets being assigned. This is an incident that requires tactical assets and whether it is OSP SWAT, FBI HRT, or Spec Ops is a moot point. The takeover is a violation of the law. Anyone planning this takeover would/should have understood it would elicit a tactical response to contain, negotiate, and hopefully bring to a peaceful end. To bring non-combatants into it is unconscionable.

    1. What happens when “the law” is evil and oppressive? Don’t get caught up and blinded by the argument that “it’s the law” when you attempt to understand things. Just because something is law doesn’t make it right, just, nor constitutional.

      It was “against the law” for Rosa Parks to ride at the front of the bus. Would you have had her surrender like a slave and get to the back of the bus because it was “the law”? Hopefully your answer would be no.

        1. Stewart, I wasn’t talking about you or the oathkeepers. I was responding to a specific comment from “SheepDog”.

      1. Yes. There are a great many laws that are unconstitutional. There are also a great many opinions issued by the courts that are also unconstitutional. That includes the U.S. Supreme Court. I’m pretty sure no one would think the laws prohibiting the armed takeover of a federal building fall into the unconstitutional category.

        1. Not a federal building, actually. It’s a public building open to the public at all hours. It’s not a ‘takeover’, as noone was threatened, no entry was forced.. This is an ‘occupation’, which (if we are to judge by how the government perceives the ‘occupy’ movement and BLM) is a perfectly form of protest. The boost is that there has been no shooting, no threats to any persons… Your last sentence bothers me. Say what is REAL; This is an occupation of open public property and no laws have been broken This is the truth..

          1. So, if I understand you correctly Gina, I can walk in to any public building, refuse to leave, stay there as long as I want, and have no expectation of having broken any law? And if that public building happens to be closed [locked] to entry over…let’s say…the Christmas holidays, I can make entry with that same expectation?
            That’s good to know.

          2. Had they left their weapons at home and broadcast this as a peaceful sit in, they would have greatly gained the initiative. The fact that they are “sitting in” with firearms has allowed Obama to win the media high ground.

            Dr. King won 2 wars. First, he hit them in their financial pockets. Second, he made it so every family in America had to have a real discussion about why attack dogs and firehoses and truncheons were necessary against people who merely wanted to eat at non segregated lunch counters, or not have to give up their seats on the bus. Bundy could have gone in there 200 strong with women and children and just sat in. The act of merely arresting these people would have been a media nightmare, and would have greatly garnered support for the whole movement.

            Instead he set the freedom movement back. For this reason I cannot support him. Either way this goes, he handed Obama a huge victory at a time when he was losing badly.

        2. I’m not so sure about that, SheepDog. EVERYONE has the right to petition the govt for a redress of grievances and what is one to do if every avenue is ignored, dismissed, and blocked? Whether one has guns on them when the occupy a building has nothing to do with anything as EVERYONE has the right to keep and bear arms, PERIOD. I don’t recall those occupying the building taking it by force, using their guns to take prisoners, and pointing them at people. If that occurred please enlighten me.

          You nor anyone else has any right to tell anyone else whether they can or cannot carry a gun. Armed civil disobedience is a valid form of protest. After all that’s exactly why the founders saw fit to include the 2A in the BoR, to acknowledge that the government cannot intimidate or pass laws the people believe to be tyrannical and oppressive. Please go to KrisAnneHall.com and learn some history.

          1. Dana…step back a moment. You are going way beyond the original point I was trying to make. That being ‘what difference did it make what tactical resources responded, the presence of non-combatants was a bad idea’.

            I absolutely agree with your statements regarding the RKBA anywhere, without restriction. No permit or permission required. I agree this group did not use force in their occupation [it was closed-no one there]. I agree armed civil disobedience is a valid form of protest and I also believe that it is time for more of the same. Much more. I am a big fan of KrisAnne Hall.

            Now, since we’ve gone way beyond my original point, I will say this. Public property is indeed public. It is also ‘controlled’ by some entity ie; government body, public utility, etc. This entity, maintains it, secures it, operates it, etc. Hours for public access are usually established. The public does not have carte blanche to do as it pleases on public property. Should you choose to research it, I am sure you will find various laws relating to conduct on those properties, ie; trespass, mischief, disorderly conduct, etc. Laws that are constitutional. The occupiers will have to deal with these, but they are likely to be the least of their legal worries, assuming of course they survive this.
            As for ‘redress of grievances’ I have no problem if this action is their means of doing that. But in so doing, there is every appearance that laws have been violated and they will not walk away from that.

            I’m through here.

    2. And that is the point of my posting this, to make it clear that non-combatants, especially children, should not be brought anywhere near that place. You’d think it was a no-brainer, but apparently it isn’t. And now I hear that Blaine Cooper’s wife is there, for shits and grins. So, if it goes to hell in a handbasket and she dies there too, her children are left without a mother. Good idea there Blaine. Clearly, there is not enough adult thinking going on there, and they either think God will protect them, or they want their wives to die too. Either way, it is foolish and wrong.

      1. If you’re that concerned, get up there with as many OKs as possible unarmed and get face to face with that special op detachment (and everyone else there) reminding them of the reality that their about to face. You need to be doing everything you can to prevent this because if shit hits the fan, what do you think that’s going to do to the oath keeper’s mission? If we witness soldiers murder patriots and their families on a feed, what do you think our (us civilians) reaction is going to be seeing men who took oaths and just following orders? I speak for many when I say, if that happens here and now then those that have taken such oaths can no longer be trusted to fulfill them. You need to get up there, yesterday.

        1. Good point, and we are indeed working on the best way to do just that – go eye to eye with those who may be used against the Bundy’s and their followers. Thank you. Stewart

          1. I agree. And as long as you’re there maybe you can do some damage control and try to talk the Bundy’s down before they totally screw this up.

          2. I’m glad to read this comment from you Stewart. It looks to me like Ammon’s been set up. It looks to me also that there is an opportunity to deprive any potential “win” by the Obama administration from a shootout by staging an intercession to this situation by an organized group of patriots. Not only will the thugs be deprived of their propaganda against the patriot movement, but the Patriot movement can score a victory in the minds and hearts of the American people by taking care of their own business.

            There has been some good publicity concerning the Constitution and BLM that has come out of it, regardless of the ill-planning or recklessness.

            Let’s go for the win..

          3. I think we may see an intercession by locals within the next couple of days. There is another town hall meeting scheduled for Friday, and I hear the Committee of Safety that Ammond helped form will be there, along with many others. Let’s see what they do before we try to insert ourselves. If they formally request that Ammon and company leave the wildlife reserve, that may be the end of it. I think it will be hard for Ammon to justify refusing to comply with the will of that committee he formed, or the will of the community as a whole (the only way he could is if he were at a private ranch, and defending an individual rancher that had requested help).

        2. That makes the most sense that I’ve heard yet.I can’t go but I will contribute to those that can

      2. The headline and the narrative seemed to place increased emphasis on the issue of non-combatants ONLY because military assets were reportedly being brought into play. That’s the way it read to me.

      3. THEY ARE WAITING FOR HELP AND HAVE ASKED FOR IT. I DON’T AGREE WITH TAKING THE BUILDING OR THERE TACTICS,HOWEVER WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS TAKING THE FIRST STEP THAT WILL INVOLVE US ALL.

  13. The Feds railroaded that family plain and simple used the weight of the Gov to force ranchers to sell out. That being said, there are a lot of people looking for a reason to ignite the fuse. I hope and pray it does not get lit.

  14. This is truly sickening to see our Govt treat these people this way! Do they not see the injustice being done to these ranchers??? They have petition their grievances to only get NOTHING (all these generations) except prison sentences, fines for the charges alleged against them from the plaintiff who just so happens to be the judge! UTTERLY DISGUSTING!!!. And Obama stated that the local law enforcement was dealing with it. HA! Everything that spews out of his demonic mouth is a lie from the pit of hell. He probably had his minions called and ready the first day. Why isn’t he going after his muslim brothers that are taking up known compounds in America training for jihad. Yeah, thats what I thought! Well, they obviously want war….shoot these patriots and they will get war! He is a father of six children for Gods sake. Im really upset.

    1. maybe we should go make waves against known jihad training centers that would make him say white racists real quick.

    1. I don’t think so but I do think he thinks he can strike a giant hornet’s nest with a big stick and win.

    2. For the life of me, I can’t see what Obama is doing isn’t plain as day. Civil war, disobedeince, and choas are exctly what he has been driving at from day one.

      The Ferguson rioting was very obviously manipulated as has every single one of Obama’s attempts to step into a crime scene which required absolutely nothing from. It is very obvious that the utter stupidity on his and the media’s part to claim police brutality is totally bogus as was the Case involving Travan Martin.

      In Ferguson, that thug shot by the cop was definitely asking for it. He attempted to rob a store, was faced by the cop, the cop went to his car and was attacked by this thug. I saw video footage of this moron attacking an elderly black man at an apartment complex. He beat the elderly man senseless and continued even after the old man was clearly beaten. But, no, the press and black activists claim he was a saint. What pure crap.

  15. Initially, I was in support of this stand-off…but after listening to his premise, I will have to agree with Stewart. He is right and we should let Obama start this conflict if there is going to be one. We need to be on the right side of this. We need the support of the military and law enforcement should the government decide to make a move to impose martial law.

  16. What does it say the military would even deploy, seems sides will have to be chosen defend the constitution or defend the government willing to burn the constitution.

  17. Any soldier who fires on US citizens is not a soldier IMO… If you follow illegal riders from Obama you are a traitor…

  18. The day (October 2015) the BLM made the Hammonds put in writing that they would get first right of refusal should they sell the land was the day the BLM proved their motive behind all this criminality for all these generations. All this for land. They make me want to puke! Sorry BLM but you can’t take the land with you to hell….so I guess you better enjoy it while you can….each and every one of you criminals. I hope to see a ground swell uprising to get the Hammonds out of jail and soon!!!

  19. Stuart:

    You are operating on the false assumption that this whole incident is completely in response to the Hammond’s plight…. it is not.

    What happened to the Hammond’s is merely two snow-flakes of trouble on a Mount Everest sized problem that is running rampant througout the western USSA (formerly the USA).

    It is irrelevant if the Hammond’s wanted the help of the younger Bundy, or asked for their help (which they did not), nor relevant if condemn or condone what is going on.

    Bundy is not doing what he is doing because of them. They are just one of the long list of victims in that particular area (over 200 have lost their properties) not to mention what is going on throughout the entire west. This is why Bundy is doing what he is doing and you completely missed the point.

    Actually the situation is much more grave than what transpired at the Bundy Ranch. They are up there to protect the nation, just not one rancher’s plight.

    Take a look at this video, and pay particular attention to the guy from Arizona in the tan cowboy hat–and personally, he should also be one of the main spokesmen for Oath Keepers from here out besides yourself. This guy lays out the grievences plainly and clearly, all of which you seem to have missed….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6COswKQ0IU

    What Oath Keepers and you should be doing right this instant is to organize supply and relief efforts to these people up there in Oregon, and to make the presence of the Liberty Movement in general as high-profile on the scene as possible. This will ensure their safety and deter the DC thuggery machine from swinging into lethal action.

    You screwed off two whole days pontificating upon the wrong premise of the situation, and now you have to regain ground when literally minutes and hours are left to act.

    If you and Oath Keepers are not going to stand here–then where?!
    Just what are your perameters to draw a line in the sand?
    Where it’s sunny and warm in Nevada? Close to casino action and buffets?

    Question: did the men who stood upon Lexington Green doing so because it was under the “optimal political conditions?” –or what?

    Get back to me please.

  20. I fear this means that fedgov is planning another Waco style mass murder. Burning the building will destroy all evidence of the assault or the number of unarmed civilians, just like they did in Waco.

    And of course Obama will use it to shill for gun control – probably by claiming they were terrorists, and so any patriot or Constitutional Citizen should have their guns confiscated and be prohibited from buying any kind of gun at all.

    You all noticed that in his speech he was talking about gun rights vs religious freedom didn’t you? So his next spiel will be to try to make America choose between one natural right and another! Or more to the point – between Bill of Rights amendments.

    1. Obamao will use drones to take Bundy and the boys out. A few hell fire missiles will take them out while sending a message to the others other patriots in waiting. Remember what Bathhouse Barry said at the 2010 White House Correspondents Dinner regarding the Jonas Brothers and his daughters, “two words, Predator Drones…you’ll never see them coming”. He won’t hesitate one minute if given the opportunity.

  21. I was told by a retired Lt. Col. of the marine corp, and he told me this is bullshit; that military units are prohibited from action inside CONUS by a law called Posse Comitatus
    FBI/HRT or ATF are authorized

    1. Army and Air Force are covered under Posse Comitatus, as I understand it, Navy and Marine Corps aren’t.

  22. “No women”? Really? Since when are we pathetic little weaklings that can’t pull a trigger? Nothing like dissing a good portion of your fighting force. Want to tell that to all the women cops and women in the military?

    1. That’s why I said no non-combatants. And that’s what I meant. I happen to know one woman warrior who is there. I sincerely wish she wasn’t, but I’d take her on my side in any fight, anytime. But unless a woman is there as at least a potential combatant, they should leave, given the situation. And kids, of course, shoulf not be there for any reason. And, even if a woman warrior wants to be there, dead women will just enrage people all the more. Just the way it is.

  23. Right, wrong, or indifferent, every one has a breaking point. Some people are more patient, are able to tolerate a higher level of imposition. Some people, then, have a lower breaking point. Ammon and Ryan Bundy have been through more than most of us, so I could understand they have reached their breaking point. For the Hammonds to have been targeted with more prison time AFTER having served their sentence, seems to me to be an ‘ex post facto’ punishment by a unscrupulous government. The people of Boston put up with as much as they could, then had a Tea Party in the harbor; they had reached their collective breaking point. We may all second-guess the Bundys, but when push comes to shove, we ALL need to shout, “NO MORE WACOs.” And then, conduct ourselves accordingly. As a side note, I sure wish Anonymous, or some computer-related government employee with a conscience, could see fit to make available a list of people, with relevant public information, that would make good candidates for some ‘tar & feathering’ parties. 4GW ya know?

  24. Patriots of America

    I agree that we have been waiting for some group to “stand up” and take a stand but I don’t see this as a line in the sand. Based on the info it appears that this is a political operation. This group has a grievance and they are exercising their first amendment rights. They are occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. They did not occupy the area by force the just walked in and squatted their. It reminds me of the “occupy Wall Street” where they eventually landed in a city park and squatted their. They need our support. The left never walks away from their people. We should not either. The bad gus are the BLM not the ranchers.

    An excerpt from the Declaration. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    The ranchers and others have been subjected for many years to the Federal agencies that have administered much of the public lands and territories in the west. These agencies operate like a government unto themselves and have dispensed their tyranny unchallenged for too many years. So the key here is that Ammon Bundy has stood up and said these Federal abuses have got to stop.

    In 2005 1000 American citizen volunteers from all over the country joined the Minuteman Project and went to the border and took a stand against the failure of our Federal Government to enforce the Constitution, Article IV Section 4 which calls for the President to secure The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; Ten years later our borders are still unsecured, In my opinion not enough citizens came out to support those efforts and it failed. With enough support then we could have taken our country back then instead we all know where we are today.
    So regardless of what we think about the Ammons group, they made their move and we should move on and talk about the issue and that is Federal tyranny administered by the Federal agencies, BLM, fish and Wildlife et al.
    For many years we have all talked about “taking our country back’. Well this incident gives us an incident and issue on a playing field (the western semioublic lands) that we can capitalize and use to make massive “political moves” to assert and rights and defang the Feds.
    Why do so many people ignore extreme legal political solutions and go right to “warfare and marshall law scenarios. Yes we are very well armed, in fact as most of us know the biggest army in the world are the patriots of America.
    Let us mobilize in non-lethal ways through out the land, to begin now to “politically” take back our country. If not now when. I agree with Ammon Bundy. If not now when.
    No one knows how the “occupation will turn out” but we should continue the fight against the Federal tyranny that the dedicated patriots in Oregon started.

    Victory does not always have to come from the point of a gun.
    Look at what the Muslim Brotherhood has done in America today. They have infiltrated our government, are involved in our schools and have not fired one shot in doing so.
    In fact they are set to takeover Europe and have not fired one shot.
    In the ‘70’s and ’80’s some patriots were training in the woods preparing for the day when armed Feds would march into town. It never happened. But what did happen was while patriots were in the woods, the libtards were in our halls of government taking over all areas of government with little opposition.

    We need to bring our “muscle” into the halls of government.”

    We need to mobilize and bring the Feds in the west under our rule, we are the people and they are their to serve us. Then we need to turn our attention to the Refugee Resettlement program which is bringing in combat age Muslims in huge numbers at our expense and stop that program. Two weeks ago the dhimmis in our congress voted to fund that program. We are in deep shit.
    In World War II the American people fought a war on two fronts and beat the Nazis and the Japs. In 20016 our theater of operation is in our homeland.
    We are in deep shit. Mr. Rhodes, you have my respect as a national leader, but I strongly suggest that you need to kick up your game.

    The United Patriots has a newly developed tools and a specific detailed plan to unify and take back our country . It is based on strategies and tactics from different areas, one of which has been developed by a small team of former US Air force personnel. Contact me at ronbass2010@comcast.net for more info.
    I have not undertaken this comment and reply lightly.

    William Wallace in the movie Brave heart: Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you’ll live… at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin’ to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they’ll never take… OUR FREEDOM!

    Fight now “politically” and if war is brought to us we will be ready.

    I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I
    can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will
    not refuse to do the something that I can do. What I can do,
    I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of God,
    I will do.” ~ Edward Everett Hale
    RB

    1. Quote “In World War II the American people fought a war on two fronts and beat the Nazis and the Japs.” Unquote

      With all due respect to lives lost this statement is wrong.

      The Russians lost 40 million dead, the Germans 20 million.

      The USA lost 780,000 in ALL theatres of war.

      As I say, I respect them, to be sent overseas to fight a war is reason enough to be scared.

      I may add that from age 6 to 11 I had the experience of WW2 including the Dutch Hungerwinter.

      Later I served in the Dutch army.

      I know what war is.

      Most of you will know the book or film ‘ A bridge too far ‘.

      Some say that the Dutch should have risen up.

      It would have been a bloodbath.

      So I agree with the stand the Oathkeepers have taken.

      This will become a standing battle, not asymmetrical warfare.

      There is a time to act and a time to sit quietly awaiting the right opportunity.

      I would like the USA free, a beacon for suppressed nations as it was a beacon for suppressed persons.

    2. Would that we could solve our problems politically! Washington D.C. appears to be a vast black hole into which the most ardently patrioticand reform-minded politicians disappear…never to be heard from again. Our entire system is CORRUPT. If one can’t win an election by fair means, there are always ways to stuff the ballot box. I believe that honest citizens in this country HAVE been fighting politically for some time now, but to no avail.

    3. “BRILLIANT” RB.

      Victory does not always have to come from the point of a gun.
      Look at what the Muslim Brotherhood has done in America today. They have infiltrated our government, are involved in our schools and have not fired one shot in doing so.
      In fact they are set to takeover Europe and have not fired one shot.
      In the ‘70’s and ’80’s some patriots were training in the woods preparing for the day when armed Feds would march into town. It never happened. But what did happen was while patriots were in the woods, the libtards were in our halls of government taking over all areas of government with little opposition.

      We need to bring our “muscle” into the halls of government (LEVIATHAN)..

      “Silence in the face of tyranny, is your consent to tyranny”

  25. Well, kids I have some bad news for ya all, yes I agree probly not good for oath keepers, yet, yet, lots to this deal , I’m 58 yrs old, so if you want the truth, we have let ourselves into a bad corner, you won’t be getting that perfect situation you may be waiting for, we already are 35 yrs to late, daddy bush, slick willy snot nose bush, and now the grand molah, good luck with waiting, that hole we digging is plenty deep, and getting deeper by the moment,

    1. Quote “In World War II the American people fought a war on two fronts and beat the Nazis and the Japs.” Unquote

      With all due respect to lives lost this statement is wrong.

      The Russians lost 40 million dead, the Germans 20 million.

      The USA lost 780,000 in ALL theatres of war.

      As I say, I respect them, to be sent overseas to fight a war is reason enough to be scared.

      I may add that from age 6 to 11 I had the experience of WW2 including the Dutch Hungerwinter.

      Later I served in the Dutch army.

      I know what war is.

      Most of you will know the book or film ‘ A bridge too far ‘.

      Some say that the Dutch should have risen up.

      It would have been a bloodbath.

      So I agree with the stand the Oathkeepers have taken.

      This will become a standing battle, not asymmetrical warfare.

      There is a time to act and a time to sit quietly awaiting the right opportunity.

      I would like the USA free, a beacon for suppressed nations as it was a beacon for suppressed persons.

  26. Some might benefit from civil war in the USA…who? Others may benefit from diversionary or divisive tactics, pitting groups of people against each other. Who’s trying to pull your trigger? Who else would benefit from the weakening or destruction of those within your sights? Who’s got control of the biggest arsenal on the planet? Who bankrolls it? Injustice is the instrument of our (increasingly global) economic system defended by these arms. Who suffers? The media turn the tides of public opinion. Who feeds it? The power to oppress populations has been a recurrent plague, undermining the development of culture and community throughout modern history. The only thing new is that the stakes are higher than ever before. Do something, I say, act of your own volition, according to your conscience and values. Be true to what you love, but don’t, I beg you, be a pawn in someone else’s game. We will all lose.

  27. Nothin´like burning down the barn at the O.K. Corral while ya back-up the buckboard and bag all the gold and uranium up there in them thar hills! Hopefully none a them yahoos don´t shoot each other tryin´ to put out the fire but that ain´t none a my concern. I´m a highwayman. Hell. I don´t even live ´round here!

  28. This is another rancher who, unlike the Hammonds, IS asking for help to protect his ranch and rights. Let Stewart Rhodes and the so-called “Oathkeepers” sit their asses on the bench and whine about not supporting Ammon Bundy and his peaceful group there trying to protect and defend the Constitutional rights of others because the Hammond’s didn’t ask for help. This rancher is asking so what excuse is next. Either they are patriots in the business of protecting and defending Constitutional rights or they aren’t. People will remember how they didn’t show up, didn’t support the cause, but insisted on armchair quarterbacking from a safe distance. They need to either show up, show support or sit down and shut the hell up.
    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2016/01/rancher-exposes-obamas-federal-plan-to-destroy-american-families-bundy-militia-full-press-conference-3091336.html

  29. Then out spake brave Horatius,
    The Captain of the Gate:
    “To every man upon this earth
    Death cometh soon or late.
    And how can man die better
    Than facing fearful odds,
    For the ashes of his fathers,
    And the temples of his gods?

  30. Thank you Stewart for your voice of reason. As soon as we heard of the Fed Bldg takeover I suspected a rat was in the mix. Definitely the wrong time for this type operation.

  31. Please do not let this standoff turn out like Waco or I will not go to school and fight in this revolution. I’m praying to the Lord God Creator of the heavens and earth that you all will act like grown ups and take care of this peacefully. Please for our future kids and grandkids. Impeach Obama and undo everything that he did and this can end peacefully. Hoping and praying that Obama will resign before he gets impeached, if he is smart enough that is!!!! Please settle this standoff peacefully!!!

  32. Please let this end in peace. I’m praying to the Lord God Creator of the heavens and earth that both sides act like adults and end this peacefully please for all our future kids and grand kids!!! If not, I will stop going to school to fight in this revolution and I’m on the Oath keepers side!!! Do you really want me to live up to my name? Stewy all grown up???!!!?!? Please impeach Obama and if he has any intelligence he will resign before getting impeached!!! Please please be adults and end this peacefully!!!

  33. Dear Mr. Stewart,

    I hope you allow me to engage you in your arena of rhetoric

    It is difficult not to question your arguments in the above article. After decades of hearing from scaremongers providing apocalyptic “Insider-Intel” from “high level insiders” who are too scarred to give their names, one eventually must call BS.

    You have no idea whether your “very credible information” is credible. You even admit this in the same article. As a lawyer you must know this. In any case, you act as if, Ammon has no idea of the numerous negative consequences of his actions. Which in my lonely opinion, do not include any damage to the “patriot movement” and/or promoting “gun control”.

    I have met Ammon, spoken with Ammon, broken bread with Ammon and his family. I have spent time on the Bundy Family Ranch in swimming trunks without any BDUs. In other words, I spent time sizing him and his family up on a personal level. In my opinion, Ammon is a “Man”, so please stop with the sophomoric, if not childish rhetoric.

    As for the rest of the doomsayers, is it possible we can put out some organized, coordinated and coherent talking points. You know, the kind of “White Propaganda” that possibly directs the narrative in a positive direction.

    It is obvious that the current narrative has been coordinated. It goes something like this.

    “The Bundy’s have picked the worst possible time and location to stage an armed raid of a federal building. Their actions are only going to help with Obama’s gun control agenda”.

    Holy crap Batman, talk about black propaganda. Who provided this line of talk, the Obama Administration?

    I am not even sure if they are trespassing. Has the legal owner of the property contacted local law enforcement and asked for the individuals to be formally trespassed? I have only heard the Sheriff state that, “it is time for them to leave”. If this rises to the level of a formal trespass, then they may be guilty of trespass. If this is the case, name another well organized protest that trespass notice has stopped in 72-hours? And please do not say this is different, because they are in a federal building. Do your own research, this is not a first.

    So far, in the face of MASSIVE media attacks by none other than ours truly, Ammon has managed to turn so called militia into protesters and quit waving guns and start to stage a peaceful and lawful protest. Can we please start pointing out, that what Ammon is doing is nothing more than an American tradition? This Government Over-reach Protest (The GOP), is just that another protest. Leaders with smart minds will see the danger in promoting this as something it is not.

    Ammon listens and reads. How about helping make this a peaceful and successful protest? Or are we all frozen by fear of what the government will eventually do today, tomorrow or next year. You must face your fears that the government will do what they are going to do, even if the Bundy’s are not around. Stop with the doomsday rhetoric.

    Oh and while we are at it, can we stop talking about the “perfect opportunity” to take “action”. No leader that I am aware of has stepped forward and demonstrated an ability to make such a claim. Make do with what we have. Right now we have an opportunity to control the narrative.

    Encourage Ammon to lead a peaceful protest, just like all the America Haters who freely protest routinely on government land grant colleges, federally funded colleges, federally funded and maintained highways, etc. Why are we allowing the narrative to be, that “white men holding a protest are militia and out to overthrow the government”. I smell something rotten here.

    Thank you Mr. Edwin Vieira. My spidey senses tell me you have the skills for putting together some talking points. One of them should NOT be to constantly talk about this as a “Militia Event”. This is a “protest” or “Occupy -Wall Street” style activism. Calling the Bundy’s liars has done more damage to this point, than anything Ammon has done.

    To the self-styled “militia-man” who is being lead to believe that all responses must be a frontal assault in full battle dress, I suggest following another leader. How about we fight propaganda with propaganda. Ammon has given us a perfect platform for doing this. STOP FRAMING this as an ARMED STANDOFF with MILITIA MEN DIGGING IN. Ammon has listened. Be men and acknowledge that his rhetoric has changed.

    I apologize in advance Mr. Rhodes for the tone of my comment. I believe you are better than ad hominem attacks on Ammon that are divisive. You are a great American who has accomplished much by focusing on your skill set. Ammon has focused on his, faith and courage. Like any real man, I am sure he is scarred. How about helping him calm his fears, so he will make the right choices.

    Join the GOP Protest. Stay a few hours and head to town and spend some money. Repeat the talking points to anyone who will listen. Leave your arms at home and your kids in town spending more money. Wear traditional Americana outdoors clothing or a suit and tie. Show America how a peaceful, lawful, protest should be conducted. On your way out of tow, be sure to thank the Sheriff for allowing the protesters to assemble peacefully and protest without having to stage a bunch of Kevlar Cops on scene.

    Outpost to Base, does anyone copy?

    1. Actually, I do have a very good idea that my credible information is credible. Email me at the “contact” email, and I will put you on the phone with the 1st SGT himself, so he can describe why his source is credible.

      As for this:

      Encourage Ammon to lead a peaceful protest, just like all the America Haters who freely protest routinely on government land grant colleges, federally funded colleges, federally funded and maintained highways, etc. Why are we allowing the narrative to be, that “white men holding a protest are militia and out to overthrow the government”. I smell something rotten here.

      I agree. However, what is rotten, and what will likely keep that from ultimately happening, is the presence of provocateur Ryan Payne and hot-head John Ritzheimer. I trust neither of them as far as I can throw them. They have a bad history.

      I apologize in advance Mr. Rhodes for the tone of my comment. I believe you are better than ad hominem attacks on Ammon that are divisive. You are a great American who has accomplished much by focusing on your skill set. Ammon has focused on his, faith and courage. Like any real man, I am sure he is scarred. How about helping him calm his fears, so he will make the right choices.

      I appreciate that. However, despite my being pretty damn angry with Ammond over this, I think I have resisted pretty well the temptation to engage in ad hominem attacks on him. I have just pointed out some disturbing facts, like the way he mislead the locals and did not ultimately follow his own stated principles of the necessity of the locals, in their committee of safety, being in charge. What happened to that? Too inconvenient? Did he just determine, after prayer, that he was supposed to be in charge, after all, and the committee be damned? That is no small thing, and it continues to this day. Why not let the committee now take over, truly, and decide what is to be done? Stewart

  34. I have to say…I’m with Stewart all the way on this one. The “patience”, Lexington-Concord analogy is/was perfect. Waiting for the maximum benefit in the court of public opinion and moral high ground is/was huge…and impossible to overstate. But if this is it, then here we are…time for us all to humble ourselves in prayer!

      1. Why reply to this comment and not to JKS?

        The above comments suggesting mr. obama* has blame are out of order and required your response, but only responding to your supporters seems disingenuous… The Federal Government is Washington based elitists selling and stealing America and her resources to buy votes, stay in power and transfer wealth to their heirs…this has been 100 years of “progress” and does not show prejudice toward any political power…they are running up Trillions of dollars of debt with promissory notes to Foriegn enemies for America’s land and resources…these standoff sa really not about cattle/ranchers, but rather natural gas, Uranium, Copper and other natural resources being stolen from all American citizens…

  35. Im seeing good points on both sides of this. At the same time, Im seeing bad points on both sides of this. Seems to me that a concrete plan is needed here before anyone acts in any way. My greatest fear is that they have that sniveling little snot Ryan Payne and that Ritzenhiemer social reject in there with them. Those guys are not likely to leave without firing a shot. I do not think anyone can keep this from ending badly for the patriot movement.

  36. …..the children…the children……stuart you are an idiot !! it’s ok to kill the white men…but oh no not the children….THEY HAVE ALREADY KILLED “the children” and no one has done anything about it …so what will be your NEXT line in the sand……the police state is marching all over us and you guys post to facebook and shout STOP……Ahhhhhhhhhhhh you are just another 5013c or whatever

  37. Actually, I do have a very good idea that my credible information is credible. Email me at the “contact” email, and I will put you on the phone with the 1st SGT himself, so he can describe why his source is credible.

    As for this:

    Encourage Ammon to lead a peaceful protest, just like all the America Haters who freely protest routinely on government land grant colleges, federally funded colleges, federally funded and maintained highways, etc. Why are we allowing the narrative to be, that “white men holding a protest are militia and out to overthrow the government”. I smell something rotten here.

    I agree. However, what is rotten, and what will likely keep that from ultimately happening, is the presence of provocateur Ryan Payne and hot-head John Ritzheimer. I trust neither of them as far as I can throw them. They have a bad history.

    I apologize in advance Mr. Rhodes for the tone of my comment. I believe you are better than ad hominem attacks on Ammon that are divisive. You are a great American who has accomplished much by focusing on your skill set. Ammon has focused on his, faith and courage. Like any real man, I am sure he is scarred. How about helping him calm his fears, so he will make the right choices.

    I appreciate that. However, despite my being pretty damn angry with Ammond over this, I think I have resisted pretty well the temptation to engage in ad hominem attacks on him. I have just pointed out some disturbing facts, like the way he mislead the locals and did not ultimately follow his own stated principles of the necessity of the locals, in their committee of safety, being in charge. What happened to that? Too inconvenient? Did he just determine, after prayer, that he was supposed to be in charge, after all, and the committee be damned? That is no small thing, and it continues to this day. Why not let the committee now take over, truly, and decide what is to be done? Stewart

  38. Ah, but BLM is supported by the government. Even to being given ‘room to destroy’.Regular ol’ white conservative ranchers? “Send in the the military.”, right? Oh, we understand BLM’s core reasons, but do you not see the difference in treatment? We are all equal, but when the gov. allows one group to destroy, yet is ready to kill another, which has not even knocked over a trash can, something stinks.

  39. “We do not need to have the risk of dead women and children in this incident.” Why the sudden sexism? Keep women off the conflict site? Doesn’t seem to matter when feminists plunder men, and abuse them. Always the same double standard eh? All equal until the SHTF. Then suddenly, men must be all protective and demonstrate maleness.

  40. Whether it is perceived to be right or wrong in what ammon Bundy is doing here is trivial at this point because the Government now has it’s just cause to go in and terrorize more people to assert their tyrannical “Authority” over the people once again.
    It’s OK for the left to commit crimes in America but when the Right attempts to defend themselves they are shot down as the vermin they think they are. The Double standards in America are past the point of no return and cannot be allowed to continue much longer and this may be the spark that triggers the fall of this tyrannical system.

  41. we could go full circle here and open up the whole truth-“In 1908 President Theodore Roosevelt in a political scheme,created an “Indian Reservation” around the Malhuer,Mud and Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds. Later this “Indian Reservation” (without indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. These actions were flatly Unconstitutional…in short the corporation wants Mr Hammonds land. How about we put some corrals,build some loading shoots,pole barn and whatever else they need. How about every rancher and farmer across the us being threatened by these mall cops Waspeak out now and tell the world whats happening and happened. How many have read Judge Ana Von Reitz “Open Letter to Sheriff Ward?”

  42. I’m going with what Stewart says unless somebody comes up with something that makes more sense. This seems more like a court case which requires something less than a martyrdom mission.

  43. I COMMEND you for standing for the well being of the women and children. It seems that no1 any more is all that concerned with protecting them. I remember watching a lecture where the woman speaker asked “where are all you men out there”? We need you now more than ever. The willingness to kill women and children and call it collateral damage is the very signature of evil on it. When I was watching the news (which is rare) and I saw the children there I was SHOCKED! I can believe there are parents there with so LITTLE regard for the safety of the little ones. If they want to lose support, THAT is a great way to do it. The children matter more than ANYTHING ELSE PERIOD!

  44. While I agree w their position and admire their bravery, It was a REALLY DUMB move. Taking on the GOV. be it state or federal , is a losing game and can only end badly. Take a cue from our forefathers AND our current enemy’s. Act BEHIND the scenes, sabotage, cut fences damaged equipment etc…. now popularly called terrorism. But it was OK for our forefathers as long as they WON.

  45. You kids waiting for oathkeepers to save you from a double headed snake, still living in Disneyland murica, oathkeepers needs to be a example for you all. But certainly don’t count on them to run all over country for you all, oathkeepers will need to protect their own homes and family’s very soon. So waiting and wanting them to come running is stupid, this nation is down to two really good examples, if you use them for examples. Oathkeepers for standing against the double headed demorats and repuicks with your arms, and Donald Trump ,last ditch effort to salvage a completly sold out tyrannical fed and state system, so hold Stewart and trump as your final examples , and protect yourselfs, you kids got 2 examples left, then you done .so arm up and if you can support trump . Murica burning down by the minute,

  46. I really wish people would stop bringing RACE into this and everything else. This has nothing to do with race except for those who want it to be about race. We are all Americans here. Lets try to Remember that. Black, white, yellow red or purple, It dosnt matter. Stewart….Im thinking an unarmed Oathkeeper presence on the ground to keep the peace is a good idea…Risky…But a good idea. I think showing up armed in this particular situation will only serve to make us look as bad as the Bundy bunch in the public eye. This is not the time HOTHEADS…!!!!

  47. And by the way , for all you wanting to pray out of this, for your personal salvation will be very smart, to save this nation, you way to late, your double headed snake took that away from you already, the heathens god has used to punish nations are here, sorry, you can thank your bush Clinton double headed snake for that,

  48. Steward,

    I found this interesting statement on Jim Stone’s website (jimstonefreelance.is). I don’t know Christian but it appears that he was present at the Bundy family standoff. In general this message confirms my very first reaction when I posted the comparison to “Operation Himmler” (Nazi false flags in 1939 “justifying” the “Blitz” invasion of Poland a little later)

    It appears ever more that this entire event, starting with the Hammond family issues was not a series of accidental steps into an escalation but a carefully planned deception of a few naïve fools into yet another false flag coincidentally at the time of yet another assault on our constitutional rights.

    From Christian Yingling:

    Ok …Everybody… please gather around and listen to what I am about to say..Then either shut your mouth, or share this far and wide. If you have ANY faith in me as a leader you will heed what I am about to say. If not..I want nothing to do with you. simple as that.

    The key to victory in any battle is the ability to remain calm in any given situation. What we are seeing right now is a whole bunch of people acting based solely on raw emotion. This is very bad and I’m about to explain exactly why. I am not letting my emotions make my decisions for me, but instead, looking at this from a calm, level headed, common sense approach.

    What you are all witnessing right now right now in Oregon has the makings of a full on false flag event. And I will prove that to you to the absolute best of my ability. Should you choose to look at this from a logical perspective you will see I am 100% correct. Some of what I will tell you is speculation based on my own experience and experiences of others I have talked to throughout this ordeal, but most of what I am going to tell you is documented verifiable fact.

    Back during the Bundy situation, Ryan Payne declared himself the unofficial “leader” of the militias present at the Bundy ranch. Nothing could have been further from the truth. In fact, none of the militias listened to him at all. The ONLY ones who listened to him were the Bundy’s, Blaine Cooper, who Payne claimed was a “professional security consultant’, who turned out to be nothing more than an ex con, and buddah bear (nice name) who he also claimed was a “professional security consultant”, but was later discovered to be nothing more than a tattoo artist thug. The militias ignoring these three, is precisely why that situation didnt turn into a blood bath. (strangely enough all three are present at the refuge)

    I and Scott Woods were asked on one occasion, by Payne to go and destroy BLM equipment in the middle of the night. We refused, stating that that’s not why we were there. We were there solely to defend the family. That very same night he rushed off in a car with a loaded AR to START a violent altercation with LEOs who supposedly had pulled over members of the Armenian Militia off exit 10 near the ranch. This report was never vetted nor was it looked into before he rushed off. It is also well documented that Payne had tried to incite other militia members to start violent altercations with the authorities who were present there. all of which were refused by militia members..all for the same reason…we were NOT there to start a fight…but to DEFEND the family. When people refused, Payne, Cooper, and Buddah ostracized them and ran them off the ranch. This is why most militias left the ranch when they did. One other point worth mentioning was there were militia members present with long range 50 cal sniper rifles… but instead of positioning them on the hilltops surrounding the ranch, Payne had them stationed down in a valley where they were effectively useless…does that sound like the makings of a solid leader to you? And also Payne was always sure to make certain that there was ONE completely UNDEFENDED access point to the ranch.. I brought this up to him asking why he would leave our back door completely open and undefended… and he completely blew me off… What he was doing in fact, was leaving an access point open for authorities to bum rush the ranch if that’s what they felt needed to be done. And I have the witnesses to prove it.

    Now throughout the situation Payne made repeated threats to law enforcement on NATIONAL media. There’s VIDEO of him doing this..its not hard to find. Yet oddly enough with all that evidence he was never charged with anything during or after the standoff. Does that seem ODD to anyone but me? (not if you’re a paid provocateur) Now in this situation at the refuge, he has publicly stated to a reporter that he has snipers set up to kill any federal official who approaches the refuge. Yet still.. no charges are being filed against him. making threats like that, you’d think they’d swoop in and scoop him up… but noooo.. because they’re giving patriots time to get there… Don’t think for one second that with a couple of phone calls to the proper alphabet agencies, those shmucks wont be SORELY outnumbered. Tell you what… if you think LEO’s don’t take threats against them seriously… go find the nearest cop and walk up to him and tell him you plan to kill police officers and see what happens to you.. See how long it takes for you to end up in prison.. yet Payne roams free..as does Cooper. Better yet go ask Schuyler Barbeau what happens when you threaten a public official… oh wait…you can’t… hes in prison… because of a facebook post. Funny how that works huh? Also… has anyone else noticed that until this situation popped up Payne was damned near SILENT on social media? Wonder why that is… Hell, Most of you don’t even know who he is… He also claimed to be an Army Ranger, But when we had someone at the Ranger School check their records… they said NO Ryan Payne had EVER attended that school… whoda thunk it?

    Myself and Scott begged the Bundys, after we left (via phone) to stop listening to Payne..that he was a plant. But they refused to listen. Payne wouldn’t let ANYONE talk to the Bundy’s with out him being present..or close by. The Bundy’s are good God fearing Christians but they are TERRIBLY naive. They truly believe Payne is one of the good guys. Which is why they are at the refuge now. Do you honestly think for one second it was AMMON’s idea to take that building? If you do… you’re a fool. They’re not that type of people. Ammon has been suckered into this standoff by Payne and Cooper. He truly went up there with the intention of helping the Hammonds, and when they were refused, The Bundy’s were made to believe that taking a stand against the BLM was the answer.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Now Cliven is on his way there.. and the govt is finally going to get their revenge on the Bundy’s and in doing so gain the access they need to their land. All the major players in the operation of that Ranch will soon be together at the wildlife refuge… thats no coincidence. I assure you.

    Payne, Cooper, Pete Santili… All well trained provocateurs who are doing everything in their power to lure patriots to the ranch.. Case in point…Santili just released a video try to say that the FBI was TRYING to shut him down.. Dont you think if that were the case…with ALL of the resources the FBI has, they would just go ahead and do it…do you really think this shmuck is smart enough to outsmart the ENTIRE FBI? Think about it…

    Let us continue on.. why the wild life refuge? how in the blue hell did they even know it existed if this wasn’t PRE-PLANNED? And why were their trailers staged up there THURSDAY night if this was all “unplanned”? And if they wanted support so bad…why not let the Oregon 3%ers and militia in on this? I’ll tell you why.. because they would have had no part in it and vehemently refused if they had known…. as was demonstrated by their response once they found out. SO..that being said.. why pick a place so remote.. I’ll tell you why.. the same reason the Bundy ranch was picked.. it’s remote… no civilian casualties. And if everyone out there is killed there’s no witnesses allowing the govt to write the narrative of what happened afterwards..You can bet any reporters out there will be silenced should they actually get close enough to catch anything worth documenting unless of course they’re willing to report what they’re told to… the reason it failed at the Bundy ranch was because the community got so involved… NOT the case at the refuge.

    Next.. why has a detachment of Delta Force been deployed to the area? (does anyone remember that Delta was ALSO at WACO?) 19 sets of orders were cut for operators to be at waco. Why in the Blue hell would they send Delta to squash a bunch of unorganized mostly unarmed protesters? I’ll tell you why.. one of the things Delta specializes in is hostage rescue.. I.E. blow open a door rush in and shoot the bad guys but save the good guys.. I.E. embedded reporters from the national media who can later report the protesters fired first.

    This is happening EXACTLY the same way WACO did… you know who else claimed, “We won’t fire first but if attacked we’ll fire back..”? David Koresh. Again well documented fact. This situation is going to turn out the exact same way. If these guys don’t stand down now, while the sheriff is giving them an opportunity to, I promise you.. its going to turn out the exact same way. I’ll bet my life on it.

    Now lets look at poor John Ritzheimer. This guy is exhibiting all the classic signs of PTSD. It is my belief that he is not in on this plan but like the Bundy’s… has been suckered into believing what he is doing is right. This poor bastard is still fighting the war in his head and Assholes like Payne and Cooper are feeding into his delusions that dying for this cause is what he needs to do. They are taking advantage of his big heart and his undying love for the country he fought for and twisting him into a suicidal maniac. Im sorry if that stings.. but I assure you its the cold hard truth. How could ANYONE in their right mind think that dying trying to fight the BLM of all things is going to “change the govt”? How ignorant do you have to be to think that fighting and dying out there is going to somehow make the BLM fold up shop and stop what they are doing. Sorry kids… the ONLY people who can stop the BLM are in DC.. and I assure you, as long as People like Harry Reid and the like are around… the BLM is not going anywhere.. no matter how much we fight them and run them off. We ran them off at the Bundy ranch…and how much did that slow them down..? we ran them off at the sugar pine mine… how much did that slow them down…? What makes anyone think this will be any different? Mind boggling I tell you.

    Now to those of you who are buying into this whole “this will galvanize the movement line of crap”.. What this is REALLY going to do is crush the patriot movement. They are going to hit these people with such force with such blinding speed and a level of violence of action that most patriots are going to turn and look at their own children and go there’s no way in HELL I want that to happen to MY family… thus the reason there are women and Children being taken to the refuge. The govt has already shown at WACO and Ruby Ridge just how willing they are to kill American Children. Don’t think for a second they wont do it here as well.

    All the classic signs of a psyop. They plan to frighten the people into not even daring to ever take a stand against them again.

    So what then of the militias? We’ll still be here but will be forced into hiding.. those who aren’t will be scooped up and charged as Domestic Terrorists. Do you for even ONE second really believe that this happening at the same time as Obama prepares to announce a whole new slew of gun restrictions is really a coincidence? Its not.. Not at all. What this is going to be used for is an EXCUSE to show why we need to disarm the American people for their own safety.. or put into place such SEVERE restrictions on owning firearms that we will NEVER be able to properly defend ourselves against a tyrannical govt. Hitler did it… Stalin did it… Mao did it… now Obama’s doing it. History is repeating itself in front of our own eyes and we’re too blinded by raw emotion to recognize it.

    If everyone picked up and left that refuge tomorrow, what do you think Payne and Cooper would do? They’re so die hard…think they’d stay and fight? I mean that’s what they’re saying… they’re not leaving right? Prepared to die for the cause….right?…. My ASS ! Nope… they’ll slink back into the shadows and wait for the next opportunity to bamboozle good patriots into signing their own death warrants. And of course… once again.. neither will be charged with anything. And good peoples lives will be risked for nothing.

    We’re being goaded into a fight here people…you NEED to see that. And every ONE of you who is advocating for this…Know this… if these people die… it will be YOUR fault. Not mine, nor will it be the fault of ANYONE in ANY unit I command. I simply wont allow it. THIS is the reason my troops follow me.. because I take the time to think these things through…to look at them from ALL directions… not based on sheer emotion as so many of you are doing now.

    It was stated, dare I say, TAUGHT to me today by a close friend who is an ex special forces operator, that wars are not won by people taking rash actions such as the ones that have been taken here. Wars are won with proper planning. That shit hit me like a brick.. And I Will NEVER forget those words as that is the smartest thing I have heard throughout this entire ordeal.

    1. Plan
    2. Equip
    3. Rehearse
    4. Execute

    THAT’S how you win a battle. THAT’S how you minimize casualties.. THAT’S how you win a war. None of that was done here. Therefore, these guys are all as good as dead.. Why do you think the local sheriff there just said these guys need to leave WHILE THEY STILL CAN… Because he KNOWS whats going to happen to them! He’s OFFERING them a way out and DAMNIT THEY NEED TO TAKE IT! The first thing I teach my guys is when they make unexpected contact with the enemy is, the proper response is to fall back, reset and take back the initiative. That’s what we need to do here. Will it look like a loss in the eyes of the people? Absolutely. But hey, you all had better get used to the fact that we are not going to win every battle.. BUT… in the eyes of those who put this whole bullshit plan together… this will be a CRUSHING defeat…Even though it will never be made public knowledge. We have let the enemy pick the time and place of our fight…and that is about to prove to be a fatal mistake. Mark my words..

    But we can still snatch victory out of this whole screwed up mess…if ONLY you will listen to me. How do we win then? Well I’ll tell you…

    We get those people out of there!!!!! Anyone and everyone who has contact with the people there needs to PLEAD with them to get the hell out of there… Then, we regroup, and WE pick the time and place of our fight…not the enemy. WE make THEM react.. WE pick ground that is most sensible for a proper defense, not a building in the middle of a field that has absolutely NO defensible positions as in the case of the refuge. Then we properly equip, plan, rehearse, and execute. If you want to win a war…that’s how you have to do it. Most importantly.. we expose frauds like Cooper and Payne for who they truly are. and drum them out of the movement before they really get someone killed.

    So that my take on this mess… listen to me if you want, ignore me at your own peril… either way it is of no consequence to me. I will not debate this issue, and NO ONE will change my mind about this… I have done too much research into this situation to allow ANY armchair commando to dictate my actions for me. This is the war you all wanted so badly… now either lead follow or get the fuck out of the way. End of story. (please note this post has been edited to provide more factual evidence to include mention of Delta at Waco.)

  49. I’ve read all the lengthy comments. Some have made very admirable stands. You’ve got good sound reasoning with logical thought. I fully support “defending against all enemies, both foreign and domestic”. One simple ideological thought has been missed in this discussion, I’d like to add it. We are at a very pivotal crossroads in our Nation The libs are frothing at the mouth for Hillary (gun grabber II) to win months from now, OR, for there to be a citizen uprising which will allow O’bummer to declare Marshall law, which will mean we forfeit having an election. BUT, something amazing has FINALLY happened in the political world… The ‘PEOPLE’ have rejected another RINO Establishment Republican this time, and have spoken with clarity that we are fed up with our politically bought leadership. All the frontrunners are not the regular sellouts. We are staged to take our Country back from the bureaucrats, just months from now. But, if a situation like this is festered and continues, we forfeit any chance of having a good leader governing our Nation one year from now!
    Once we start a fight such as this one, and others ensue behind it, or corrupt government is all too happy to declare Marshall law, which they have carefully planned for with their stockpiling billions of rounds of hollow point ammo. They want us to egg them on into this bloodbath. Why give them what they want, when we can swear in a good man in January 2017?
    Your cause may seem right and honorable to start this fight now, but as has been already mentioned, it will not have a good outcome. You will have played into the enemy’s hands,AND STOLEN THE OPPORTUNITY AWAY FROM EVERY AMERICAN TO HAVE A LEADER WHO WILL REVERSE THE GUN GRAB, OBAMACARE, COMMON CORE, RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, PLANNED PARENTHOOD, BAD FEDERAL JUDGE APPOINTMENTS INCLUDING SUPREME COURT APPOINTMENTS, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, SECURING THE BORDER, GETTING WELFARE CHECKS BACK FROM THOSE WHO LEACH OFF OF ENTITLEMENTS. GETTING JO’S COMING BACK TO THE USA, ELIMINATE UNFAIR TRADE… Many more, but you get the idea… The list is endless.
    If you want to start this fight, you must also be advised that you will eliminate the ONLY HOPE that we presently have to get this sinking shop out of the water.
    There is a divine reason that favored establishment folks are not doing well in the polls, and the citizens rights candidates are.

    DON’T BLOW IT NOW!.
    ‘THEY’ WANT YOU TO…..

  50. The Hammonds have reported to prison! There is no reason to continue this takeover of this government building as nothing will be accomplished with all you people dead.

    It would be best to fall back and live to fight another day against this tyrant in charge.

    Without the backing of the local population in Burns, you have already lost your advantage and there is nothing you can do to get them on your side now. There will be better times to fight this corruption by exposing the facts behind this Hammond misuse of power to send them back to prison again for one so called crime of lighting a fire to protect their land. You will achieve nothing if you die in this way! Leave this building and help to expose the illegal activities of the federal government which should be the goal of all freedom loving people and let this event be for cause and not effect.

  51. It is past time too act. Our government
    has been out of control for too long. Where will “We The People” draw
    the line? When will we draw the line? Somewhere, some time, people need to act. who decides? If someone acts before you have decided they are nuts? I have to admit I am confused. Please listen to my congressman on the situation in Oregon. His and
    my District. Eventually we have to say, “Enough is Enough” and draw a line somewhere. and if we are not doing it as one. We all lose.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4ocLdWE90

  52. Re the actual subject of the article, and as noted in the Update, this shouldn’t surprise anyone that Oregon is shaking loose a National Guard unit for this.

    I expect they will be, at minimum, taking over security on the roads leading to the refuge, freeing up the county and state LE agencies to return to their duties, ‘and’ forming a loose screen around the refuge to keep supporters from bringing in supplies.

  53. Please explain this comment, ” If a dozen men die in a shootout, that is one thing, but if children die, there will be a civil war.”

    These are Americans standing for liberty. Any use of deadly force initiated by the government against them, should mean war. The Hammond men were tried as terrorists during a war on terror. In essence, the government declared war on Americans. This means that people like the Hammond men and Schuyler should be considered prisoners of war.

    These patriots are not starting a war, they are peacefully trying to wake people up to the abusive tyrannical government.

    1. Dead children make it a 100% certainty. That is what I meant. But yes, we also hold to the credo of no more free Wacos, as I said at the end:

      A Warning to the Obama Administration: No Free Waco’s

      However, as much as we oppose what Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have done, we must warn the Obama Administration that it does not have free reign to “Waco” the people in this standoff by using deadly military force, such as an SOD-X, Delta Force, or the FBI HRT to kill them all. The Federal government must respect their right to due process and do all it can to end this standoff peacefully, without loss of life. It must treat it like the Freeman standoff, not the Waco standoff. There will be no more free Wacos, as Mike Vanderboegh, Founder of the Three Percenter movement puts it. We agree. Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

  54. Let’s face it. The people of rural Oregon and Idaho, and Montana, and Nevada, etc. most likely support the theory that Bundy Is proposing. That is not the issue. After the Marathon bombing response, probably 30% of Bostonians sat down and had a real conversation about police overeach. After Freddy Gray, the conversation was had again. After the legislative efforts following Sandy Hook as well. I work in a very liberal city, and after San Bernadino, nobody was calling for gun control. My point? Being “right” is not the issue, nor has it ever been the issue. The issue is winning the hearts and minds. Period. Cliven Bundy “won” because of a few simple concepts. Liberal America never grasped the concept that he and his family needed to be executed for grazing cattle on disputed land. And also, why did the Bureau of Land Management need to set up snipers and push down old ladies for a grazing offense? Those 2 things kept that man and his family alive. The “patriots” who protected the Bundy family were lucky. Fedgov realized that had they proceeded, Bostonians, San Franciscans, New Yorkers, and Chicagoans would have demanded accountability. That video of Amon Bundy being tazed, and his grandmother being thrown to the ground was priceless. The whole country asked, “for cattle grazing? Really?

    This is exactly how this war needs to be prosecuted. With unarmed, nonviolent patriots who will not shrink from the threat of violence. Gun toting Texans are already on your side. You want to win the hearts and minds of non ranchers in urban areas. To do this, you must leave your guns at home. Also you have to secure the “moral high ground”. Like the “freedom riders”, or the civil rights activists, you must just take the beatings and the arrests. Soon after that, the whole country will realize that their tax dollars are funding this madness, and will demand change. Any other way will just be playing into fedgovs hands.

    1. In spite of what the propagandists are trying to tell you, the left, non ranchers, and urban dwellers hate the BLM and government overreach. Stewart is wrong about there being a civil war.

      1. Catherine, I agree that some of the left hate governmental overreach. But having been raised in the “deep north”, I can tell you that most “liberals” are very much uneducated about the Constitution, and are very pro government. Without question. The hallmark of the liberal education is “exceptionalism”. So my family members whom have Ivy League educations really do believe that they are “better” than people whom are of lesser means or education. It has been drummed into them for years.

        None of them are gun owners, and when I dropped out of college to become a firefighter, they nearly died from embarrassment. If someone were to break into their homes in the middle of the night, they would cower in the closet and dial 911. They don’t understand the do it yourself spirit. Yet they are good people, and just because they have been more or less brainwashed, does not mean that they should be written off.

        These are the people whom are running our country. They don’t understand “Don’t tread on me”. They think that a Confederate flag is racist, and that the south is evil. They also have absolute faith in the alphabet agencies. So when a bunch of gun toting ranchers take over a public building, they want the FBI to go in and kill them all. They will never reasearch Waco or Ruby Ridge. They flat out just don’t care. Most would back gun confiscation tomorrow.

        So how does one deal with this group? You beat them at their own game. You become thoughtful and articulate, and non violent, yet brave in the face of danger. You win them over. You tone down the gun toting Bible thumping rhetoric. You debate sans emotion and with facts. But mostly, you give them tolerance for their beliefs. From that comes mutual respect and understanding. I agree that Amon Bundy’s arguments may have many merits. But will any city dwelling liberal take the time to wade through the propaganda to get to the truth? No.

        Northern liberals love Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Invoke his principals and you will achieve his results. He was very much a second amendment guy. There were heated debates about all of the beatings his supporters took. But in the end, when some eight year old kid asked his father why black folks couldn’t just sit at the counter, there really was no good answer.

        The Cliven Bundy issue was a Dr. King moment. Some eight year old kid wanted to know why the SWAT team was going to kill those people over cattle grazing….,once again, there was no good answer.

        Every point moving forward must be prosecuted with that theory in mind. That is really the only way to counter the years of propaganda and to begin to heal this country. The left is going to try to demonize white Christian, gun owning citizens. Has this incident helped us or hurt us in the battle for the hearts and minds? I say that it has hurt us.

  55. As an outsider, I believe that Ammons group is having some success turning this lemon into lemonade. When I first heard about this incedent I thought exactly the same thing as you all seem to have.

    “Wrong fight wrong time since the hammonds themselves didn’t seem to want the help”

    However over the last few days as I have studied the hammonds record I’m starting to feel like maybe Ammon has done the right thing.

    Keep in mind that I am not an oath keeper, however I am sympathetic to you guys and want to encourage you to keep up the good fight.

  56. It’s one thing for special ops to take on our foreign enemies It’s quite another to sick them on American citizens! They ” the protesters” are exercising their first Amendment rights!! Right to peacefully assemble, right to protest, at the same time using their right to free speech” Yeah, the first Amendment, try reading it and tell me what they are doing wrong? They are armed, oh boy? Isn’t that the Second Amendment But, I guess that only applies to muslim terroists??? Heck, I got an idea, why not send them to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., That traitor has been occupying our house for too long! And theyr’e not sending in special ops in on that fraud! odd isn’t it? Sending in trained killers , would set a tragic precedent, which would have many Americans , question whether, the special ops, are ,and will be our enemy, along with the rest of the federales! That in turn might make other protests, be more violent from the out set! Once it’s in our minds, they are figuratively wearing U.N. helmets, things could get ugly in short order!P.S. If they do send in spec ops, I hope the protesters come out on top!

  57. After listening to all of you all I can say is wow!!! So many judgements so much frustration.
    I was not with you Stewart so I can not speak on your experience but as an Oathkeeper I trust and follow your leadership.
    As for everyone It is up to each and everyone of us to gain knowledge in retaining our own God given rights. Many people unknowingly submit to authority that does not exist.

  58. I have read all of the posts and need to read them again to try and digest the opinions and information submitted. I am impressed with the knowledge, suggestions and data submitted.
    First of all we must not forget that this entire anti American Administration is committed to the downfall of this Sovereign Republic. Secondly, the ONLY reason this big domino remains standing at this moment is the fact that we are armed and have our Second Amendment. They have been trying from every angle to generate a race war so they could declare Martial Law which would stop the next elections and allow them to incorporate his United Nations One World Police Force which already has boots on our ground in 6 cities around the country. The race war situation has not generated the call for Martial Law that they desire. That being said, I feel that if there is an armed exchange in Oregon, it will be the moment that they have been waiting for and they will declare Martial Law. It could then evolve into a full blown civil war. I feel this situation in Oregon is the the wrong place and the wrong time to allow this confrontation to commence. I realize that we must stand our ground to defend our Sovereign Constitutional Republic, I just want it to be the right decision and have our fellow Americans standing with us. I stand with my brothers and sisters irregardless of which path we choose.

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