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Negligent Discharge at Recruiting Center Shows Good Intentions Not Enough

Guarding Recruitment Centers in NH
Oath Keepers exhibiting training, discipline and safety show the right way to Protect the Protectors.

The good news is, the armed citizen “guarding” a recruitment center in Lancaster, Ohio, who negligently discharged his rifle, was not an Oath Keeper, nor part of the sanctioned Protect the Protectors project.

“Thankfully, not one of ours.” Stewart Rhodes told me this morning via email. “Not an Oath Keepers member. Steve Frasure from Ohio confirmed that.”

Thank goodness for small favors, because the bad news is, this plays right into the hands of gleeful anti-gunners, who would demonstrably rather see recruiters dead than either armed or guarded. And the thing is, it’s the second time this guy – who says he was trying to clear ammunition to let “someone” look at his rifle — has had an ND, having been convicted and fined in 2013.

A while back, I attended an open carry demonstration in “progressive” college town Oberlin, where gun rights advocates were protesting an attempt by local hoplophobes to ban guns in city parks – a clear violation of Ohio preemption law.  A “reporter” asked one of the demonstrators to unholster and present his handgun so the cameraman could get a good shot of it for the viewers back home.

The gun rights advocate, to his credit, refused and told event organizers, who promptly put media on notice and announced to all present not to cooperate with such requests – particularly with law enforcement officers monitoring the crowd  who would not have been privy to why a handgun was being drawn in a crowd of people.

Basic safety rules are things Oath Keepers with real-world experience can share with all gun owners. So are command, discipline and training, all vital elements whether performing guard duty or participating in an armed event. Leaders organizing such operations must make certain those joining them understand all safety and conduct rules, which should be assured beforehand and then monitored for continued compliance.

Serious business is at hand that requires alertness and attention along with seriousness and maturity. If someone shows up and is resistant to that, you don’t need him.

Good intentions on the part of volunteers are not enough, because we all know where the road paved with them leads.

As for the antis: They’re going to have their fun with this and go full Alinsky Rule 5 on us. Don’t lose sight of the fact that for all their snotty ridicule, the “alternative” they offer is for attackers to be armed and victims to be defenseless. All the noise they make and insults they hurl can’t change that fundamental truth.

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DavidC

David Codrea blogs at The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance (WarOnGuns.com), and is a field editor/columnist for GUNS Magazine. Named “Journalist of the Year” in 2011 by the Second Amendment Foundation for his groundbreaking work on the “Fast and Furious” ATF “gunwalking” scandal, he is a frequent event speaker and guest on national radio and television programs.

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51 comments

  1. Spot on, David. Thank you.
    Good people who do not have military or police training in basic gun handling can, and should, take a lesson here.
    Am sending this one out to our full list right now.

    Salute!
    Elias Alias, editor

    1. Elias this might be what the set is all about. Read a earlier article that one of the so called marines was killed in Irac. WTF is going on. Then I looked at the crime scene photo and some things don’t add up. No shots above waste high and to shot from a car and discharge 50 rounds into a building and have 4 confirmed kills, they would of had to be standing shoulder to shoulder and then four out of four. WOW I’m a Vietnam 11 bravo/40 vet and it don’t add up. Hope this thing in Ohio isn’t what they were after.


      [Editor’s Note: KW, I question everything. We all should.
      And btw, Welcome Home, Bro.
      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor, FMFPAC ’66 & ’67 USMC.]

    2. while I agree people need training and discipline, I do not view your stated places as the only outlets for proper firearms handling training. it is also the duty of the citizens to properly learn their firearms and proper handling techniques, as per the 2nd amendment.

      it comes across as you are pro police and military and anti citizen, by stating only they should be armed and present.

  2. Perhaps it is time to tell civilians who show up at recruiting centers to leave their guns at home. Lets leave the ARMED stuff to the veterans and oathkeeping LEO’S………….I will cook for them and give them any support I can. Yes I can shoot a gun. Very well actually, I’m No slouch with a gun at any distance but I do not have the experience to provide the knowhow and security that our service veterans and LEO’s can provide.
    We have an opportunity here to pull off something great for our republic and our nation . Lets not f*** it up….!!!!
    Please excuse the profanity………..This really upsets me. The lame stream media is going to have a field day with this…..!!!!!!

    1. “Perhaps it is time to tell civilians who show up at recruiting centers to leave their guns at home. Lets leave the ARMED stuff to the veterans and oathkeeping LEO’S”

      Instead, why don’t you start having them TRAIN YOU as is constitutionally required so that you can fulfill the duties of the constitutionally REQUIRED Militia in each state?

      “but I do not have the experience to provide the knowhow and security that our service veterans and LEO’s can provide”

      That is WHY you, and others, must be trained as constitutionally required, and those trained ex military can train you in the manner to which we all should be proficient but by evil design we are not.

      1. Agreed. That is the answer. Veterans and others experienced with security details need to train inexperienced Veterans and others. First one-on-one and then side-by-side during a security detail, especially DISCIPLINE. Not just with handling firearms, but taking actions, We’re going to need more and more people qualified for security details beyond Military Recruiting Centers (malls, schools, and whatever else needs to be protected from terrorism.)

    2. so much for the 2nd amendment and it’s rights for the average citizen..

      how about they be known as a non affiliated person, and you could, prior to allowing them to stand guard, as a proper citizen should, require credentials showing proper training, either through hunter safety courses, along with NRA safety training, or maybe your community organizers could develop a proper arms handling educational training that pounds in common sense to boot.

    3. Flinter,

      You and those who agree with you sound like the left elitists. We fight to protect the constitution, then turn and say a particular group does not deserve or earned any rights. It may have been an accidental discharge that kicked off the revolution against the English who were out to take away guns from settlers.

      Unintentional discharges happen…in the military by trained personnel….and LEO’s,….and veterans,….

      MOLON ABE

    4. The second amendment gives citizens the right to protect their rights for freedom. If the Oathkeepers don’t feel the average citizen is equipped to do it properly, why not offer training so that ALL citizens can work along with you the Oathkeepers ? We as a nation need ALL the help we can get.

  3. Lack of weapon education can be harmful. I personally never keep a round in the chamber. When I open carry my sidearm,I verify the chamber is clear and the clip is not in the firearm for safety.

    1. Then I take it when you open carry you have no intent to use your firearm to protect your life or the lives of people around you when the sh– hits the fan.
      I do not mean this as a judgment just an observation.

      44485

      1. Your assumption is wrong. Many people including myself do not ALWAYS have a round chambered yet are ready to use their weapon. . I personally act with situational awareness and utilize the Cooper Color Code to decide my condition of readiness.

        In my judgement, the risk of a ND outweighs the extra time it would take for me to go from condition 3 to condition 0 WHILE IN CONDITION YELLOW. Should the situation go to Condition Orange, I may chamber a round.

        My muscle memory developed through training is to chamber a round before engaging a target. Worse case scenario is I lose a chambered round in the heat of a surprise engagement. This would be very unlikely. In Condition Orange or worse, I am more aware of my weapons condition.

        You are very welcome to your opinion and you can operate in whatever condition you want… BUT WHEN SOME IDIOT has a ND it THREATENS MY RIGHTS, that pisses me off… So set yourself up for success and DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO to be responsible.

        The man who insists that his way is the only right way without all the facts is not a thinking man.

      2. Lack of weapon education can be harmful. I personally never keep a round in the chamber. When I open carry my sidearm,I verify the chamber is clear and the clip is not in the firearm for safety. No sir. I feel I can load the weapon quickly enuff.

        1. Being as how the FIRST RULE OF FIREARMS SAFETY is to treat EVERY FIREARM as if it is LOADED, there is no excuse for an ND. I ALWAYS carry with a loaded chamber. ALWAYS. Bad things happen to GOOD people, and damned quickly in most cases. By always carrying with a loaded chamber, there is never any question as to what “condition” my weapon is in.

      3. The Israelis live in a very “hot’ environment and carry in condition 3 from what I remember. They went to condition1 when going to a confrontation and the special teams always were in condition 1.

    2. I personally keep the mag loaded in the handle of my sidearm but don’t have one chambered, that way my spare mag holder is also full.. just in case when considering the fact you have lately been having groups of people in excess of 34 causing violence in public settings.

      as a result I have practiced the draw and rack method. it really doesn’t take any additional time IMO to do this as up out and swing up, during swing up is the rack, ending with both hands on the sidearm and ready in the same time it takes to normally draw it.

      however citizen engagement is usually post threat. so I also focus on HtH combat adopting a survivalist mentality.

  4. Safety, safety, safety!! This is a serious liability and should never be taken lightly. This liability is a exactly the issue LE has with civilian armed activities. Field commanders must maintain 100% safety at all times. Excellent security and safety is never convenient. Senior and experienced members on site must always be diligent to keep focused on your team mates and step in to mentor and aggresively train on an on-going basis. There is no finish line when it comes to training and safety awareness. Keep your team mates safe at all times. Sorry for the soap box but this is a serious issue we need to always be mindful of…

  5. I am and Oath Keeper and what this organization is performing to protect our Service Men/Women is one of the main reasons, under these unbelievable BO/Pentagone orders, for the Oath Keepers to fulfill. Now if you don’t have the training to stand guard and perform the duties required in front of this Recruiting Centers please don’t, perform some other support role! Yes there are a lot of brave Patriots but they need to be trained and shooting at the Firing Range is not training. Anyone can pull a trigger, but training is the difference between the right action and the wrong action. May God bless our Troops, Oath Keepers and all Patriots.

  6. A clip and a magazine are two different animals, and most younger gun buyers today – particularly civilian, sport shooters – are unlikely to have ever seen a clip. A magazine feeds rounds into the chamber of the weapon, is generally spring loaded, and is part of the firing / reloading process for the gun. A clip traditionally held rounds in a set configuration, generally by the base, and facilitated loading into the magazine.

    Unfortunately, over a long period of casual use, the two words have merged on occasion and It’s an easy mistake to make. I’ve made it myself. Heck… so has Wayne LaPierre for that matter. That doesn’t make it right, but it falls into a pattern which has been plaguing logophiles for ages… the sad fact is that words evolve over time, often to their detriment. And when they are used incorrectly for a long enough period by enough people, the “new definition” takes root and it’s pretty much impossible to exterminate.

  7. would help in anyway possible (associate member) is there anyone guarding in Parkersburg WV? I know I can.’t guard with a gun but is there any other thing I can do?

    1. JP brings up a excellent point. Only urban field training and years of LE experience better prepares you to mentally and physically recognize those urban setting type life and limb conditions by which it may be necessary to ready your weapon. There is a difference, in my humble opinion, within regards to urban home town LE and battlefield military mission priorities and objectives. For example; LE must apprehend the suspect while maintaining civilian/officer safety at all times etc.. Military must neutralize the verified target/aggressor while maintaining team/civilian safety keeping collateral damage to a minimum dependent upon the operational objectives and parameters etc.. These are two different mission objectives by which the organizations are fundamentally trained to successfully operate under.

      Therefore, a home town urban security setting has unique operational characteristics which must be implemented and vigorously adhered to due to the vastly different operational environments.

      If I confused anyone with input/explanation please feel free to chime in!!!

  8. If you don’t trust your firearms skills and knowledge enough to carry with a loaded chamber, maybe you shouldn’t be carrying in the first place! An unloaded chamber will get you dead real fast. Load it, stick it in a SECURE holster or sling, and keep your grubby [Two Words deleted by Editor] off the trigger unless you need to use it. I’m a retired LEO. Our handguns were carried in a level 3 security holster and we trained constantly on weapon retention. It gives me the willies when I see some of the open carry guys with expensive handguns in cheap $1.98 Uncle Mike’s nylon holsters. It’s OK for the inexperienced to carry for their own protection, but a detail like this should be left to those who’ve done it before.

    1. Amen Brother! I have never understood the concept of carrying with an unloaded chamber…and I never will.

    2. A secure holster for a “no external safety” weapon like a Glock means not just difficult to snatch out for other than the user, but covers the trigger guard and trigger completely with a hard shell. If that trigger gets pressure on it, it WILL discharge, wherever or however pointed.

      Good point on “expensive handguns”: if a pickpocket can get your wallet or watch without you knowing it, why couldn’t they get your pistol as well? It’s not paranoia when carrying in a crowd. A quality automatic pistol can be a month’s pay in some of the more restrictive places, and at least a weeks pay in the free-er States. Same kind of value proposition for a thief to get loaded full-cap magazines from a belt.

      This sounds crazy, until you have stepped off of a train or bus platform In Rome Italy (not Rome TX) and been surrounded by Gysies who have spent a lifetime fleecing tourists and getting away clean, working in teams taking turns distracting/bumping/lifting/passing/running. Sharp elbows and moving swiftly helps.

  9. Oh thats right….only ex-military or law enforcement know how to properly use a weapon. I have lost track of how many times I have seen law enforcement mis handle a weapon and personally know of a few marines that have done some pretty dangerous stuff in public with weapons. Stop being so elitist. I train every bit as much as any oathkeeper. Stop pointing a finger at 1 oddball. You are dividing all of us. Grow a spine and quit whimpering about what the big bad people on the left are going to say or think. If you can’t explain and argue away people like this man mentioned in the story then please..you yourself lay your weapon down because maybe you aren’t intelligent enough to carry one.

    1. “See kids, you have to be this professional to handle a firearm (bang! Ohhh).” Only One example in elementary classroom doing negligent-discharge into his lower flesh.
      Yep, there’s a u-toob video.

  10. Oh, thats right. I forgot, only ex-law enforcement or military know how to use a weapon. I’ve lost track of the number of times I have personally seen law enforcement mishandle a weapon and have witnessed several marines handling weapons in the most dangerous of ways and in public mind you. Stop being so elitist. This is why more people don’t join your little organization because if they aren’t in one of the aforementioned groups..well you can join but only as a lower class member. Stop dividing us and stop your spineless whimpering about what the big bad people on the left will say or think. If you can’t explain or win an arguement with someone about what a few clowns are doing out there then please lay down YOUR weapon because frankly I don’t think you’re intelligent enough to carry one. By the way…why don’t you say thank you to all the “Ordinary folk” who are guarding these centers because apparently there aren’t enough of you “real guys” to do the job.

  11. After a decade of dealing with militias in the 90’s I came to understand how idiotic both the members and leadership can be. We have no business injecting ourselves uninvited into this situation. They are government property and though they took the same oath as we did they are active with the said government and we are not. Our job is to protect the innocent civilians not active military. Feel good demonstrations like this lead to issues like above because no one is under obligation to follow instruction or orders and you have no authority to make them leave. I have given up on Oathkeepers now because of such insane leadership. Go home, protect your family’s and neighbors. That’s the mission of the militia. Stop looking for every opportunity to spread your narcissistic feathers. Train (regulate) and prepare for when you will actually be useful instead of trying to be superman to everyone. Your looking like fools now.

    1. “I have given up on Oathkeepers now because of such insane leadership. Go home, protect your family’s and neighbors. That’s the mission of the militia.”

      First, the Oathkeepers is NOT a Militia, though they are in favor of REAL ones *Constitutionally required.

      If you are an OK member then you are an uninformed one as the OK is about educating the military and LE’s as to their Constitutionally REQUIRED Oaths and constitutionally required responsibilities.

      Those soldiers that are left undefended here in America also deserve to be defended from “nutcases” usually sponsored, trained, supplied by those who serve within our government – yeah, lots of facts on that one if you need them.

      They are our families, friends, fellow patriots and the Traitors who currently serve within our governments do them as much harm as they can, be it here, or to the places that we are in (unlawful) wars in, or in between.

      They have it rougher then plain citizens.

      My PERSONAL opinion on ” I have given up on Oathkeepers now because of such insane leadership. Go home, protect your family’s and neighbors”, and realize that I do NOT speak for Oathkeepers in any way,…

      Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.

      * Constitution of the United States of America, Second Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

      This is located within the Bill of Rights, it does NOT belong under any of the three branches of the general (federal) government, or the states. It is a tool of the people that the US Constitution requires of them to train as the US Military trains and to be armed at all times to be ready if needed. But before they can carry at all times they were supposed to be trained from a child up.

      Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights: “Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.”

      Nunn vs. State, 1 Ga. (1 Kel.) 243, at 251 (1846): ” `The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.’ The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right.”

      The duties and responsibilities of those that serve within our governments to the people’s Militias are written in clear English within the US Constitution, as well as the tasks for which they are constitutionally REQUIRED to use the Militias, and who when needed and being used by the general government is the Commander in Chief (US president).

      They are NOT allowed to create governmental professional law enforcement or to keep standing military – yep, forbidden to them and because we allowed them to do so we are where we are today, a police state. That, by the way, throughout history is what governmental professional law enforcement and standing militarys throughout history have always been used for – against their own people; and why those were forbidden to those who serve within our governments.

      The ONLY lawful standing governmental professional law enforcement have is when they KEEP the Oath to “support and defend” the US Constitution. (I know, way more then you wanted to know)

      US Constitution, Article I, Section. 8, Clause 11: “To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water”

      Letters of Marque and Reprisal is using private citizens in their own privately owned crafts to defend the USA and her people, this is using the Militia.

      Clause 15: “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel invasions.

      The Militia of each state is constitutionally assigned the duty of the defense of the USA and her people, not just with the defense of their state, counties, cities, neighborhoods; and they are to be armed with weapons that can repel any invasions bearing modern weapons of war. Congress is required to provide those military grade weapons for the militias.

      The Militia has as its constitutionally assigned duties to:
      — Enforce the US Constitution and each state’s Constitution,
      — Enforce and keep the “Laws of the Union” (which are constitutional laws ONLY),
      — Protect the country against all enemies both domestic and foreign, and
      — “to suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions”.

      Clause 16: “To provide for organizing, ARMING, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress”.

      Thomas Jefferson, 1st inaugural, explained that: “a well-disciplined militia” is “our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them” and also a guarantee of “the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; [and] economy in the public expense.”

      Just an FYI
      Understand that those ex military ARE the organized Militia; they are trained “according to the discipline prescribed by Congress” for the Military. They, and they alone, have the complete weight of the US Constitution behind them in every constitutional action they take.
      They can and should be training everyone else so that the Constitutionally REQUIRED Militias are available in every state for the duties assigned to them by the US Constitution.

      Anyway

      Stay Safe!
      God Bless!!

      Molon Labe!!

      If there were never intended to be action to defend the Constitution from those who are domestically attempting to destroy its power and authority, why would each Oath require it of those who take the Oaths?

      Chief Tecumseh’s wisdom: “When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”

      1. Cal,,, that was the most eloquent and insightful comment regarding militia and constitutionality i have read on this forum!!! Well done brother!!!!

      2. I think his comment was to the general consensus here that your LAC’s shouldnt’ be allowed to Open carry as they don’t have training.

        also, the citizens themselves, when armed, with or without training outside the scope of LEO, or military would classify as “unorganized” militia, which also falls within the confines of the constitution sir. therefore the general disagreeable consensus with some of the OK’s members statements here is well earned in my honest opinion.

    2. Tyler, I am also dissapointed at the fact that this is being allowed to happen: Open-carry Oathkeepers in front of recruitment centers. It’s as if they forgot that the military are very capable of protecting themselves. Let’s support getting weapons in THEIR hands, changing gun-free-zone legislation, instead of fellow Oathkeepers looking like fools and in turn stigmatizing anyone with an OathKeepers sticker on their truck. It makes me want to be even more selective with those that I train with.

      1. If the “military” was capable of protecting themselves HERE in the USA they would NOT have been murdered, would they? It was wrong of the to “just follow orders” and here it cost them their lives. Not all orders are constitutional though they are required to be except in a Congressionally declared war on foreign soil.

        No one else here in the USA is allowed or delegated that power. Taking that power for oneself is usurpation and creates a lot more crimes. Think of it like “assassination powers” which HERE is First Degree Murder on the part of EVERYONE involved. Not lawful, but can only be stopped by the Militia.

        “… instead of fellow Oathkeepers looking like fools and in turn stigmatizing anyone with an OathKeepers sticker on their truck”.

        I think you forgot this part when reading the article, “the armed citizen “guarding” a recruitment center in Lancaster, Ohio, who negligently discharged his rifle, was not an Oath Keeper, nor part of the sanctioned Protect the Protectors project”.

        People show up; some to assist, some to PRETEND to assist while doing something that puts the group in a bad light, some that are just “foolish” or ignorant, and some that just want publicity. That is life, one deals with what happens while trying to make sure that those types of things never happen at all in the first place.

        I have found that Oathkeepers have been true to their stated purposes, despite the urgings of some hotheads, or from those sent here to make life rougher on them (nicest words I could think of) with lies, putdowns, etc.

        Again this is MY OPINION, and I do NOT represent Oathkeepers when I say this.

        I agree with being selective WHO you train with, but IF YOU are ex Military, ex leo, etc then it IS your constitutional duty to be training the rest of the people around you to be the constitutionally REQUIRED Militia. Of course, if you do not want to assist in getting the CONSTITUTIONALLY REQUIRED Militia back up in each state as it is REQUIRED to be… then no one can force you.

        1. Cal, I didn’t forget that part. I was not there so that I could not influence, in any way, the outcome of that AD. However I did see how the media reported, implied and associated this individual with OathKeepers and the fact that the Pentagon goes and follows up with a formal-request for armed citizens to stop. I’m not arguing any other issue in this matter. I get it. I’m just saying OathKeeper leaders may want to ‘pick and choose’ our battles a little more carefully in light of the power the media has to incorrectly, unjustly (pick your adjective here) blast a group. I’m not suggesting OathKeepers WILT in front of media, but they should at least be careful. To their credit, I’m sure they have been. But with the ‘helpers’ around, it makes it too easy… Those reading about it on any other web-page are not seeing the discretion.
          And speaking of non-associated armed citizens deciding to ‘help out’ in line with our groups deciding to stand watch: Where does this slippery slope lead OathKeepers in the future?

  12. Gun handling skills are something that cannot be stressed enough. You’ll notice I said “gun handling skills” not “gun safety”. These skills are perishable and need to be constantly reinforced. I’m a CRO (Chief Range Officer) on the run and gun courses here at Rio Salado and get to witness some “highly skilled” people making mistakes (some cannot get past being DQ’d and their pride forces them never to come back to practice). We do not have “ADs” (accidental discharges) but “NDs” (negligent discharges) because there is no excuse for them especially in a public setting. This is nothing but more fodder for the anti-gun crowd.

  13. I have a real beef with this particular AD and the fact that it looks silly. I’m the guy that wants to support and participate with Oathkeepers but when I see open-carry individuals standing in front of a recruiting station, red-flags start popping up and I’m not sure if I want that bumper-sticker on my truck. I understand the respect and admiration for those that are currently serving, but what’s wrong with just allowing the military to protect their own? At least then the individuals that mean well (but just shouldn’t) wouldn’t have the chance to give OathKeepers a black eye. I’m sure the majority of you would agree that trying to ‘protect’ the protectors makes for one EASY target for those just looking for the bone-headed humor that will follow. Will bad-ideas like this be screened first in the future, or will it continue? Will I be one of the many, considering dropping association with OathKeepers because of clowns like this? I take this serious, I don’t want to feel like a freaking fool because of those that want to deviate from what we should be focusing on. Come on!

  14. the Liberal mexia is having a field day with this kids actuons, which is turn has made the mikitary arguments for keeping us out even stronger.
    The Armed Services Recruiting Centers are Not the place to play show and tell !

  15. I guess I have only a small and simple comment which has little to do with the deeper problems seen here.

    I understand cost and finance, but why in the world do all those guarding (or guarded) look so hap-hazard? Gee, one has an OK hat and the next a tee-shirt. Some have long pants and others shorts. Why can’t they at least look professional and have a common simple yet positive format. Sitting in a lawn chair with a 22 with shorts on would never be a determined to any determined freak. I did think it was great at first blush but after all that I saw I did not want to be associated and that makes me sad to say it.

      1. I’m sorry if I struck a nerve and I maybe see your point.

        Is the point that image is not a component? Carry a big stick (arm) and the image will explain itself above all other?

        No! Your WDC Suits instill much greater fear in the Sheep than will a pair of shorts and flip-flops no matter how big the stick or meaningful the individual. Image, be that visual, audible or written is responsible IMO for the sheep forming a line behind false authority, so how does one combat that image and it is not with a cavalier approach?

        I stick with my perspective and do respect yours.

  16. I’m a retired JBHunt driver so you know there is nothing bout trucking I don’t know……and guns. Old timers will tell you that the best way to check to see if a gun is loaded….is to pull the trigger. If you hear a click…empty. If you hear a loud bang….not empty. Sooooo simple.

  17. first things first ,I’m not associated yet with the OK but my intentions are to join. I have read the post above and some I strongly agree with , but I do agree that OK members should have a professional appearence OR at least a consistant look if we are to be taken seriously and not be thought of as some ragtag bunch .
    As for the ND up till that incident I was seriously thinking of joining the watch over the recruting offices ,but now I think I’ll just sit back and wait somehow I feel like the 16 years I spent in the military dosen’t qualify

  18. You can get all the training available and buy the safest weapon on the planet and it will NOT guarantee you will not eventually experience a ND.

    Just fact.

    I’m not saying training is bad or cheap weapons are better just that a ND is just that – a NEGLIGENT discharge.

    It has happened to the best of us at one time or another. I don’t anyone that has handled firearms regularly for any extended period and not made a mistake on occasion.

  19. Training to accompany maturity and situational awareness is a critical aspect of being a true adult. In the USA I detect a growing number of folks whose maturity and situational awareness are sub-par at best and too often those desirable traits are lacking.

    I applaud Oath Keepers for doing what is possible to encourage mature behaviors in its members. It is imperative of Oath Keepers members to always portray a mature image that lends an aura of legitimacy to the individual members and the organization as a whole.

  20. Well the young man who had the ND in Lancaster was passing out flyers and claiming that he was a member of the oath keepers. This causes this organization liability concerns doesnt it?

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