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PENNSYLVANIA OATH KEEPERS AND PRINCE LAW OFFICE CONDEMN POLICE STATE OVERPLAY

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PENNSYLVANIA OATH KEEPERS AND PRINCE LAW OFFICE CONDEMN POLICE STATE OVERPLAY

Pennsylvania Oath Keepers team with prestigious law firm to condemn newest police-state manifestation.


The story went national in the last week of September, 2014. An elusive suspect who is believed by authorities to have shot two police officers has been the subject of an intense manhunt in a wooded area of eastern Pennsylvania.

I shall link readers to two op-eds at the Prince Law Office site, but first let’s read how Pennsylvania Oath Keepers are reacting to what has unfolded during this manhunt. Here is how Tom Wise describes it:

Imagine peering cautiously from behind your door as heavily armed squads of armored police officers meander across your lawn. Feel the vibrations as armored patrol vehicles roll down your street, and a six and half ton armored breeching platform digs ruts across your front lawn. Pretend the local businesses are closed, parents and children separated, pets are left to fend for themselves, and the elderly are left without care because police have cordoned off your neighborhood. Your friends are helpless, sleeping in their cars through the cold mountain nights, and your family is hungry as they wait for you to return with food. But police refuse to allow you to drive back home.

This bizarre scenario isn’t taken from the plot for Red Dawn. This happened, and is still happening, in Barrett Township and other North Eastern Pennsylvania towns, and your state police are doing this “for your own good.”

Please understand that we are all praying for the family of Cpl. Bryan Dickson, and for the healing of State Trooper Alex Douglass. The loss or injury of any of our public servants is heartbreaking, and we support our State Police in their search for the killer.

At the same time we must ask ourselves if the loss of freedom and liberty, and the endangering of the residents of any town in the United States of America is the proper response in the search for one man. One man who, for what public information we now have, is accused by what seems at best a circumstantial connection to the crime.

In addition, those who have questioned authority’s response and point out its inherent assault on the citizens’ Constitutionally-guaranteed rights, and who have stood for the citizens of Barrett Township in the protection of their civil-rights have had their lives threatened. Threatened for taking a stand against an emerging militarized police presence.

Residents of Canadensis Pennsylvania were overwhelmed by State Troopers searching for Eric Frein, the accused police killer. Videos provided by residents have shown large groups of police officers in full battle gear, automatic weapons ready, walking through yards and wooded areas in squad formation.  Pennsylvania State Police have brought in a six and half ton armored mobile sniper platform with breeching capability affectionately named “The Rook.”

Is this the right way to find a fugitive? What ever happened to neighborhood policing? What has happened to asking questions, and seeking input from those that live in the affected area? Do we no longer seek to partner as citizens and protectors? What ever happened to good old fashioned tracking, seeking clues, and detective work, using more peaceful means to police? Is brute force really an effective tool in finding a fugitive from the law?

We the people of Pennsylvania, Oath Keepers in support of the Constitution of the United States, standing ready to support our local and state police in times of trouble or calamity and to protect the Constitution, insist that our officers stand down in Barrett Township. No citizen of the great Commonwealth Of Pennsylvania should be subjected to the suspension of inalienable rights under the constitution in the common exercise of police discretion. No citizen accused of a crime should have their constitutional protections infringed, as we are assumed innocent until proven guilty.  No police presence should take the role of a domestic army positioned to face the citizens rather than our outward enemies. The safety of our family and friends cannot be so threatened by police in the fulfillment of their duties, nor should our citizens be moved to accept such a threat as common to our lives.


So that is how Tom Wise and the leadership of Pennsylvania Oath Keepers have worded their concern. Tom Wise makes good points. One point he brushed over very lightly but hinted at is found down the column at this article on the local ABC affiliate News-13 website:

Lt. Col. George Bivens is quoted saying:  “Lethal force is authorized upon positive identification if he is not actively surrendering,”


Link: http://abc13.com/news/accused-cop-killer-repeatedly-appears-then-eludes-manhunt/322722/

Shoot him if he doesn’t act right when apprehended, use lethal force if he does not “actively surrender”. No arrest, no charges, no trial, no jury verdict – just take him out unless he is actively surrendering.  And then hope you shot the right guy.

Well, that is sorta where another side of this story comes into play. The esteemed Prince Law Firm has spoken up in opposition to this police-state drama, and for their trouble in defending the Constitution they are now receiving death threats from anonymous statist-minded parties. Anyone can relate to why a law firm devoted to protecting citizens’ Constitutionally-guaranteed rights would object to a call for lethal force to be used on a man who has not been brought to trial.

The elder Prince in Prince Law Office, PC, wrote an op-ed on the firm’s blog and titled it “The Uproar”. It was written and published by Warren H. Prince, Esq. on September 25, 2014. Link:

http://blog.princelaw.com/2014/09/25/the-uproar/

Warren Prince began his article with these words: “I must admit that I’m surprised by the vitriol arising from Joshua’s recent post about State Police action in Pennsylvania. Our staff has received death threats. Can you believe it? Death threats because we expressed an opinion contrary to theirs and in support of the Constitution.”

Warren Prince was alluding to an article his son, Joshua Prince, had written on the law firm’s blog, which has stirred the ire of some statist-minded people who want to see an over-played show of force by the State Police, and by some others who want to use this manhunt as an “on the job” training situation for teaching cops how to use their new military-grade mechanical toy, that “Rook”. After all, as the Department of Homeland Security continues to pre-position military-style equipment all over America by granting such vehicles and equipment to police departments and Sheriffs’ offices, it would come in handy for them if the local police were to be trained on how to use that equipment. The police then become an equipped extension of the military in a liaison of military-police state “martial governance” which DHS is attempting to construct.

In a more recent article by Joshua (Josh) Prince, the issue is clarified even more. Please read the whole article at the Prince Law Office blogsite, here:

http://blog.princelaw.com/2014/10/03/the-legal-issues-of-the-eric-frein-manhunt/

From that article:

The Legal Issues of the Eric Frein Manhunt

By Joshua Prince, Esq., October 03 2014

Prince Law Office

As our viewers are likely aware, several of our recent blogs (mainly my own) regarding the Eric Frein manhunt have resulted in some controversy. Prince Law Offices has always stood by the rule of law and the Constitution. It is in that spirit that the blog articles at the heart of this controversy, and this response, were written.


At Prince Law Offices, we believe that our legal system, of which the Constitution is the heart, exists both to prosecute those who commit crimes and to protect the civil and natural rights of the citizens. Sometimes, those two goals come into conflict with one another, as they have here. The Pennsylvania State Police are operating to catch and prosecute the suspect of a capital crime. They should fully utilize the resources provided them under the law to pursue and arrest the suspect, who will then be afforded an opportunity to defend himself before a judge and jury. Let us not forget that, as of now, he is a suspect and no matter what evidence has been presented by the media or the police, the foundation of our criminal justice system is that everyone receives the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. It is for precisely situations such as this that the protections of the Constitution exist, and Prince Law Offices proudly stands by its dedication and commitment to protecting the Constitutional rights of all citizens.


While the State Police are clearly working to execute their mandate to enforce the criminal laws of the Commonwealth, our concern is they are neglecting the other side of the equation – the protection of all citizens’ Constitutional and natural rights.

(end quoted excerpts from Joshua Prince article at above link)

So it is imperative that this vision of justice be brought before the public mind. Oath Keepers commends the Prince Law Office as well as State chapter President Larry Liguori, Tom Wise, and all the other Pennsylvania Oath Keepers who are working to do just that. We will post an update as things there develop.

Salute!

Elias Alias, editor


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39 comments

  1. Lt. Col. George Bivens is quoted saying: “Lethal force is authorized upon positive identification if he is not actively surrendering,”

    This appears to show Intent by the State:
    State sanctioned “Hit”.
    Premeditated MURDER by the State.

    Same as the Police conduct during the Boston fiasco. No attempt to take subject alive.
    Same as the radio traffic during the California, disgruntled Dorner stand off. Police said..”Burn the MF.” or was something to that effect….. that Police said on open comms.

    Maybe someone more knowledgeable here can straighten me out?
    When did Police become Death Squads?
    Guess I missed that memo?

  2. Oathkeepers and fellow citizens, as a former Pennsylvania resident and citizens born and raised in the birthplace of Liberty, I oppose the violation of the rights of Pennsylvania citizens and hope and pray that the Pennsylvanis Police will manage their investigation and search for this citizen who allegedly assaulted, murder one and wounded another law enforcement officer, will be conducted in a community policing rather than a militray style ofpursue. Citizens have a right to a peaceful community free of force, intimidation and fear of their law enforcement offiers.

    Police states create fear and intimidation, which can and does lead to brutality on the part of the police and the failure to respect the law. Creating a lawless state is a disadvantage to our police and some citizens may take this action as a demand that they protect their own community against the police. Oathkeepers support good law enforcement and opposes unconstitutional policing, such as is occurring i Pennsylvania.

    I urge the law enforcement community to refrain immediately from the current tactics which can only lead to their insecurity as well as society. Stand down police offiers and conduct your search in a constitutionally sound manner. God bless us all. Peace, Peter ~and resistance

  3. This is disturbing and I am in full support of the efforts of POK and the Prince Law Firm. These types of incidents are becoming more common place since Police Dept. have been able to purchase military equipment and form militarized SWAT teams. I thank both organizations for taking a stand here at the threat of their lives.

  4. This is why I have a bug out bag in my vehicle, among other things. Personally I don’t think I could leave my house unattended for the storm troopers to have free access to. We all know what they are doing to vacant houses. It would be just another story about a crazy guy held up in his house that has to be arrested for everyones sake, move along, nothing to see here. Thanks sheeple for your complete and utter ignorance.

  5. Where in the Constitution does it say that the police force can and is a military force or can be used as a military force? I do not support or condone the police force to be equipped like the military.If I remember correctly that their job is to protect the citizens and to enforce local law in regards to civilian protection.

  6. The opinion in Mack and Printz v. United States stated, “The Framers rejected the concept of a central government that would act upon and through the States, and instead designed a system in which the State and Federal Governments would exercise concurrent authority over the people. THE FEDRAL GOVERNMENT’S POWER WOULD BE AUGMENTED IMMEASURABLE AND IMPERMISSIBLY IF IT WERE ABLE TO IMPRESS INTO ITS SERVICE – AND AT NO COST TO ITSELF – THE POLICE OFFICERS OF THE 50 STATES… FEDERAL CONTROL OF STATE OFFICERS WOULD ALSO HAVE AN EFFECT UPON THE SEPARATION AND EQUILIBRATION OF POWERS BETWEEN THE THREE BRANCHES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ITSELF.”

    One more time,
    To ALL Law Enforcement and Military;

    I know that you do not want to hear this, but YOU are being used to destroy our nation from within. From warrantless searches which are FORBIDDEN by the US Constitution but sure made your job easier and more fun, back to when you really appreciated a judge that signed a blank warrant instead of arresting that judge, to these marches within US cities, towns, counties all are NOT lawful here in the USA. To those times they call you in for a “Need to Know” raid and tell you that you do not need to know, “just follow orders” (which is a LIE, YOUR Oath makes you personally accountable. Someone dies and it IS First Degree MURDER since it was a planned raid).

    You do need to know. YOU are accountable, and will be held so (unless you change or they win and destroy our nation) since you took and Oath that defines in what way you are ALLOWED to do the job you are in. Why would you trust those that have told you that it is POLICY to LIE to the people? You like Obama because he IS a liar? You like it when people lie to you? Your kids lie to you, or do you punish them for what you do daily?

    Please start thinking. YOU are needed, YOUR country needs you to be constitutional. The people NEED YOU.

    You need to start saying “no”, but that now can be dangerous for you because there are many “rumors” that many cop suicides were cop assisted.

    I do not know the answer to those problems, and this is something YOU need to figure out and quickly. Otherwise YOU ARE a traitor to the USA, to the American people – do NOT let those traitors serving within our governments make YOU into one.

  7. Another example showing RTI is not effective. No amount of RTI has prevented the police in Pennsylvania, Mass, Connecticut, and other states from completely stomping out the constitutional rights of free American citizens. The police of almost all of our original 13 colonies have become a militarized force ready, willing, and able to snuff out our rights. The same can be said for police forces in many other states in our republic. Anybody who has the nerve to stand up and tell the police to back off will be subjected to an immediate and overwhelming display of force by those jackbooted thugs. It’s time that everyone wake up and realize the police and many of our active military actually enjoy being the unconstitutional agents of the overgrown, dangerous federal department of homeland security. (Never American or USA security, always “homeland” security). Sounds to me like the underlings of Hitler and the Nazis of the 1930s and 1940s and now firmly in charge!

  8. I posted this on the ABC News website under the story: http://abc13.com/news/accused-cop-killer-repeatedly-appears-then-eludes-manhunt/322722/

    ARE YOU EFFING SERIOUS with that picture above? Fear pornographers! What is this? POST THE WORST hope for the best?

    How many more of our rights are going to be violated under the precept of safety and security?
    It is a sad thing that tow officers were killed BUT HOW COME we do not hav e the same reaction when KNOWN violent Illegal alien murders are coming across our borders unimpeded?

    Is this because Police were killed? What about the military soldiers who are placed in the same situations DAILY? Yet it seems perfectly acceptable by our government to leave the borders open and some of those illegals crossing are Muslim Military combatants who have already killed Americans . . .

    Why is that? Why is there a different set of rules regarding the murders of military, or is it “Because they are Soldiers and should expect to “get dead” as part of that awesome job and wonderful benefits package?” Our soldiers were also being fed TWO MEALS A DAY in Afghanistan . . . Wonderful benefits huh? Oh and that extra $35 a MONTH hazardous duty pay makes it all worthwhile too . . . Am I being facetious enough here?

    How much safer and secure are we today since 9/11 WITH open borders too? So much for ASSumed security. What was it Benjamin Franklin said?”“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”. . . . . In the end we give up both . . .

  9. [Editor’s Note: I am posting this screed by Harvieux simply because he needs to hear my comment. Please disregard his faulty logic in his comment below this statement by myself. Thank you.

    Harvieux, I know you mean well, but Dude, you need to realize that the Act of 1871 has no Constitutional authority and is bogus outside that ten square mile cesspool we refer to as the District of Corruption or WDC. That Act is not a Constitution. There is only one Constitution. The idiots in WDC can *say* anything they wish to say, but if it is not pursuant to the Constitution for the united States of America, whatever they come up with is purely impotent BS, has no effect as “law”, is null and void on its face, and should be laughed at instead of being taken seriously. My suggestion to you is that you come to see yourself as a Sovereign Soul enmeshed in human flesh with unalienable rights protected by the *real* Constitution and do not bow down in belief to that stupid Act of 1871. Secede from your belief that somehow that Act of 1871 created anything valid. It did not. It’s only *power* is in the gullible public mind which has been conditioned to behave and perceive as if the Act were somehow *real*.
    Thank you for considering my suggestion, Bro.
    Salute!
    Elias Alias, editor]

    Here is Harvieux’s post:

    This is a clear case and point of the United States, Inc. exercising Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the constitution. ie: “exclusive jurisdiction whatsoever”. Remember, the State of PA and every other state of, for that fact, is a franchise branch of the United States and their exclusive jurisdiction. United States citizens are a party to this jurisdiction via tacit consent under the 14th Amendment and actually well before. Actions such as this perpetrated on the people are becoming more and more prevalent. The PTB look upon the current written correspondence and the verbal defiance against their actions as slaves in servitude attempting to address redress of grievances to their slave masters however, this is a rebut-able assumption. PA became a free and independent nation under Article II of the Articles of Confederation followed by becoming one of the nine (9) of the original 13 colony states lawfully brought forward in perpetual union as a confederation under the Articles back on November 29, 2013. PA can now lawfully bring forward militias as well as Sheriff’s to protect the people against such corporate overreach once they are educated as to what has transpired. PA can also lawfully convene grand juries as well. Remember, slaves have no rights however, American citizens are Kings and Queens and the lawful platform has been brought forward before your very eyes and ready to fill up those vacancies otherwise, the status quo will allow the chains of enslavement to weigh down your neck and poof, all of a sudden, Nazi type occupation will ensue to its depth of enslavement. I doubt such hard core truth will be allowed to be published here based on actions of the past however, people are waking up in droves and we are on a positive time line and those who are open minded will soon see the light.

  10. So my question to all of you, which one of you would take FULL responsibility if this suspect or another suspect responsible for the shooting of (2) state police officers, took your family, while you wait this out in your house, because that is your right, and excecuted them one by one in front of your eyes, or better yet became the victoms of friendly fire because you feel the need to move to a safe zone until they catch this clown.
    Any takers?
    If you’re worried about tire tracks versus a potential armed intruder, then you must be armed to the hilt.
    Let the police do their job and stay out of their way.


    [Editor’s Note: Sheesh, John — you’ve missed the whole point, and I doubt that you read the article in full. It’s not tire tracks we’re worried about. There is a much bigger issue of how the government is using prepositioned military equipment in what should be routine police work. I could, had I the time, lay in here for you a more complete picture of the horrible abuse of authority being exercised by the Pennsylvania police, but need to first know that you have read the two linked articles by the Prince Law Office. We support police work, but that work works best when it is done Constitutionally. Do give those articles a read and then read the above article, and if you do that much I’ll be glad to walk you through the proper way this should be handled by the police. Thanks Brother,
    Salute!
    Elias Alias, editor]

  11. In the matter of Mr. Eric Frein manhunt, it is my personal belief that, comments made by both Mr. Joshus Prince, from the Prince Law Office, and Mr. Tom Wise and the Team of the Pensylvania Chapter of Oath Keepers are right on point. I strongly believe that all members of all State Police Organizations and all local Police Departments should attend mandatory classes, on the American Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, eventhough I understand the emotions of Lt. Colonel George Bivens, his comments prouve and make it necessary to immediately implement the indoctrination of all Law Enforcement Officers, relative to the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights. This type of response, from a very Senior Offricer and Leader, in the Pensylvania State Police Representative , is totally unacceptable and proves the immediate required need for such an informational Program. I have personally observed, in several States, that there is a tendency, from certain Law Enforcement Officers, to bully, intimidate and threaten the US Public. This type of behavior is unnescessary and is unconstitutional. Each Law Enforcement Organization would be wise to implement such a porogram and closely follow their Standard Operational Procedures. If Law Enforcement Officers want to get the respect, which they desparately deserve, they need to work with the Public and not against them. It only takes a few incidents like this one, for the Public to lose the respect for the deserving majority of Law Enforcement officers

  12. “Lethal force is authorized upon positive identification if he is not actively surrendering,”. Effectively ‘Wanted Dead or Alive’, your choice. I can think of numerous situations ‘not actively surrendering’, including not being aware he is targeted by a quiet sniper hundreds of yards away.
    “Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”. Unfortunately many are willing to ‘sell their souls’ for the assumed promise of Safety.

  13. Rick Anderson Says:
    October 21st, 2014 at 8:09 am

    Another example showing RTI is not effective. No amount of RTI has prevented…
    ******************

    Rick for what ever it is worth ‘I Agree 60%’. What this means is I do believe in education, look how we got here in the first place, the Federal DPQ (Dumbdown, Payoff and Quiet) Program. IMO RTI should be part of a very enhanced CPT Program which OK backs in part with funding and training personnel that will offer assistance on the National Level, Legal being a prime point of support, information on ‘What If’ stopping all the hints and second guesses that I seem to see. Weapons, Medical and overall support for CPT that would make it a totally cohesive training methodology. Maybe I am totally speaking out of place, but we are close to a day where decisions must be made, are we all ready? Not by a long shot…

  14. [Editor’s Note: Jack, thank you for starting your comment with the disclaimer that you do not know if this is true. At present time there are various “rumors” floating around similar to what you’ve sent in as your comment here. Even the Prince Law Office notes that one of the police officers is RUMORED to have been having an affair with Frein’s wife. The truth is, and we must acknowledge that truth at this website until further truth becomes known, that all such RUMORS must be treated as rumors and NOT to be spread all over the Internet.
    Note to all readers: Two things I need to bring to your attention. First, not everyone posting comments under our articles at Oath Keepers are members in Oath Keepers. Secondly, we need to question everything for validity before saying something online. Thanks!
    Salute!
    Elias Alias, editor]

    Here is Jack’s coment as he sent it in:

    Not sure if this is true?
    I was told that Eric Frein, the alleged shooter, has brother that lived in apartment complex
    with the Cop that was shot.
    The Cop that was shot was banging Eric Frein’s brothers wife.
    So Eric Frein took exception to the Cop having sex with his sister in law.
    Took exception to his brother’s marriage being damaged by the Cops, choice to screw a Married woman.
    So Eric Frein allegedly took measures to rectify situation.

    There seems to be a total Net blackout of this side of the story.
    Of course the state officials paint picture of situation as a “wacko “survivalist” that hates cops.”
    Can anyone post substantial info as to validity of story?

  15. This sounds very much like the Bundy Ranch incident some months back. Militarizing our police can and will lead to violent consequence’s due to the infringement of Constitutional rights “THAT ARE SPELLED OUT” clearly in that document and the amendments. I know of some local sheriffs’ deputies that, Quote, “don’t believe the constitution is worth the paper it is written on”! With loose cannons like this you have to ask yourself, do we want someone like that peering down the scope of a high powered sniper rifle? Do we want them to have access to the technology that our military has? All we needed in the Bundy ranch scenario is “one” officer with that mindset and an adrenaline rush that will set off a revolution in the United States of America!

    I am a Navy war veteran and an Oathkeeper in the Las Vegas area. I can tell you that our veterans are extremely disgruntled and disgusted with an administration of “COWARDS”, like we have in office now. We have been weakened as a national world power and at the same time these fools are making it a priority to take our second amendment rights away from us. I have some very heartfelt fears for our future! We are taking a very dangerous road and if we can’t get the United States back on track we will lose all of the very things our past hero’s have sacrificed and died for.

  16. There are very few truly random acts of violence.
    Most often there is a back story.
    Sex, Love. Money. Greed. Fear. Revenge, Jealousy. Spite.
    Being wronged. Being pushed around. Politics. Religion.
    Self defense. Protecting someone you care for.
    Just a few of common motivations for violent actions.

    Guess there are some true “nut jobs”, But even “Nut jobs” have a reason to their actions.
    Most of the “nut jobs” that make headlines were on Medication that INCREASES violent behavior.
    The Meds Make messed up people into KILLERS. Medical establishment KNOW this FACT.

  17. Here is story about what may have caused the shooters actions:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2769945/EXCLUSIVE-Did-survivalist-cop-killer-deliberately-target-one-troopers-shot-Police-reveal-quizzed-suspect-s-sister-law-love-triangle-surviving-officer.html

    Looks like shooter Eric Frien shot the victim cop in the Balls. Or tried to.
    Love triangle gone bad.
    Check out story and decide for yourself.
    Is this why there is a Murder on site order for the shooter Eric Frien?
    State wants to shut this down without truth coming out?

  18. The law has run amok down here in Fl. also. In Dixie county a man got picked to be forman of the Grand Jury. Apparently he pissed off some higher ups,& a judge threw him in jail.Even the hometown
    law enforcement are forgetting the oath they took.We are waiting to see how this plays out.

  19. There appears to be a PATTERN of behavior within the Law Enforcement community.
    There appears to be a lack of ACCOUNTABILITY for choices and actions taken by Police.
    A few incidents that come to mind:
    -Police Officer Terry Yeakey who was tortured and murdered. Claims are that the Oklahoma City bombing was covered up. Officer Terry Yeakey was a first on scene responder. Claims are that he saw things that Feds wanted covered up.
    -Waco Tx standoff where women and children were burned alive.
    Law enforcement went in with bulldozers and cleared the crime scene.
    -The murder of unarmed Vickie Weaver and her teenage son in Ruby Ridge Idaho. I believe that Randy Weaver won a civil suite against Federal Law Enforcement.
    -There was an unarmed young woman recently murdered by Police in Washington DC. There was a chase and the Police killed her.
    -Boston bomber suspects had reported Ukraine ties. Russian intel reported the subjects involved were up to something before incident. Yet Feds did nothing to stop subjects. Police locked down and violated all civil rights of persons in area as perimeter door to door search were conducted. Subjects involved were shot.
    -Christopher Dorner was burned alive in California.
    Here is a link of that incident:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbh7CNTwtEA
    -Bundy Ranch stand off.
    -Ferguson militarized response to Peaceful protesters. Then the stand down by Police to protect property and allowing troublemakers to loot and burn.
    -Now this incident in PA.
    “Lt. Col. George Bivens is quoted saying: “Lethal force is authorized upon positive identification if he is not actively surrendering,”
    Sounds like an order given by a Dictator in Central America.

    The above incidents are but a Few of the Many examples of questionable Law Enforcement activities.
    Where is America going?
    We as a people are in real trouble if Accountability and self Restraint by Law Enforcement is No Longer a Reality.
    There MUST be Accountability for actions taken by Public Servants.
    There MUST be a Higher Standard adhered to by those entrusted with public safety and National Defense.
    With Police and Government Power there MUST be Responsibility and Accountability.
    There appears to be NO RESTRAINT. NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
    Why?

  20. Does anyone else see this pattern?
    Does the government want a civil war?
    Are they trying to provoke so as to have excuse to Murder Americans in mass?
    What other explanation is there?
    Why did the Feds lock out people from visiting war memorials and national parks during supposed government shutdown?
    Very provocative action. You don’t mess with old vets.

    Why was DHS practicing with targets of pregnant women? “No hesitation targets.”
    Why are Fed agencies like NOAA and Social Security admin stock piling ammo?
    Are you people paying attention to what is going on?
    I see all this stuff and find it hard to believe that no one seems bothered or concerned.
    People really need to wake up. Or is the course to Absolute Tyranny already set?

  21. We listen to talk radio.
    We read local newspaper.
    We have politically active contact with one so-minded in PA.
    NOTHING HAS BEEN SAID OR HEARD REGARDING THE MILITARY/GESTAPO TACTICS RELATED IN THE Oath Keeper article ABOVE !
    We would appreciate a statement from Oath Keepers regarding this breach of ‘Law & Order’ protocol with blatant orders and actions breaking the “tranquility” right, etc.!
    Thanks for standing-up and putting actions into print that can be an alert to all.

  22. @ harold
    I was just reading about it. Saw this comment:
    The Nuremberg Trials;

    After WW-II the German commanders were brought to trial. The higher ranking officers and officials of the Nazi regime were all found guilty of crimes against humanity and executed.

    Many of the lower ranking military person who also stood trial claimed that they “were only doing their job – following orders”. And that if they had refused they themselves would have been shoot. While that may have been the case, it was established within those Nuremberg Trials, (and many others since that time) that “Simply doing your job and following orders” and killing people because their superior officers had ordered it, was not a sufficient defense. It was found that had these men refused to carry out these mass murders and executions that perhaps many of those murders could have been prevented or at least many thousands of people may have been spared from the gas chambers or the firing squads. Simply doing your job – following orders is NOT a defense.

    And that applies to the Sheriff and all his deputies in Dixie County Florida, and it also applies to the Dixie County Commissioners.

    Simply doing your job and incarcerating Terry Trussell because some judge objects to Terry Trussell invoking the Common Laws of America and under the Constitution, is NOT a sufficient defense.

    This judge is wrong. Terry Trussell’s punishment is unjust and it is WRONG.

    I am calling on the Dixie County Sheriff, Mr. Dewey H. Hatcher, and also the Dixie County board of Commissioners, to all do what is right. Instead of simply “doing your jobs”.

    M – A lot of people are tired of corrupt courts from the comments! I agree with that.
    Take back our courts, dump unlawful elections: machine voting, ALL counts made inside the USA,etc will help a lot to getting our nation squared away.

  23. since 2008 i guess its easier to kill suspects than to find out the whats and whys of why something happen. bring back the cops of the 60s and 70s who had to do police work to catch the bad guys. or maybe ok can supply a few goood men(or women) to track and get this guy before the cops murder him

  24. When I read articles written by Oath Keepers I am constantly reminded that Oath Keepers is made up of LEO’s and military yet when I read some of the stories I find it hard to believe that the authors of these articles have any knowledge of police work or tactics. This writing by Tom Wise in this article is one of these.
    We as readers constantly hear about SWAT teams with automatic weapons and armored vehicles and the militarization of law enforcement. To me this sounds just like the antigun left. I would like to take a moment and explain some what you are seeing.
    Most of the time when you see an “automatic weapon” in the hand of a police officer it is a semi-automatic rifle, usually on the Colt AR platform. Most SWAT guys do not carry fully automatic rifles. There is are some very simple reasons that the AR is carried. First and foremost the accuracy rate of officers who carry the AR is usually somewhere in the 95% range and higher. A second reason is the fact that they can penetrate body armor. As most of the readers know there has been a push for LEO’s to have quicker response to active shooter incidents and other armed encounters. When a cop shows up with a 9mm handgun that will not penetrate body armor he might as well go home. YES I know that a whole bunch of readers just thought shoot him in the head. Yes you could train the officers to act like that in a violent confrontation but the cost of that type of proficiency would be extremely high. It takes very little training to have an officer with an optic mounted long gun to be proficient.
    ON the topic of armored vehicles there is one main reason for them. RESCUE. Someone please tell me how a cop is going to go up under fires and rescue a civilian or fellow LEO? The truth is many have been killed doing just that. The reason that the vehicles are from the military is as simple at this. THEY ARE FREE to the community in most instances. I think that most people who call the police actually want them to be able to handle what they are calling for.
    I use the analogy of someone you care about in a severe personal injury motor vehicle accident. If a guy runs up and states he is an Trauma Doctor and your child needs that service then he tells you he has none of his tools to do that job how would you feel? He is unprepared? What a jerk? You allowed my child to die. It is no difference in the law enforcement community. For years people have complained that they were not prepared for serious calls then when they got prepared they are militarized.
    I do however concur that the canceling of Halloween is a unnecessary event and I do believe that based on his actions this killer is only targeting LEO’s or some of them. The shoot on sight if not compliant is a different issue. Would you expect your daughter or son to wait to be shot at by a killer before they engage? These are the types of rules of engagement that have gotten thousands of our soldiers killed. Is that ok?
    I have no idea what Mr. Wise’s background is but he is out of touch with the LEO community if he feels that because of the presence of an armored vehicle and a rifle that that is anything other than trying to save lives of civilians and officers.

  25. @ mike salerno.. So what you are saying is that YOU do not support the US Constitution, or is it that you ONLY support and defend it when it does not apply to something you might do?

    OK is about the US Constitution – KEEPING their Oath, not only when it is “convenient”. That IS the law of our land even when it is NOT enforced.

    @ Kurt,

    A lot understand why the weapons they carry are what they are, but that does NOT make them constitutional in the actions that they are taking. YOU (if you are LE or military, etc), took an Oath that YOU would support and defend the US Constitution and it is VERY explicit in the ways things can be done to the people.

    That was the reason that governmental professional law enforcement was FORBIDDEN to those who serve within our governments – state and federal. They are ALWAYS used against the people. It is why the US Constitution requires ALL law enforcement duties to be done by the people themselves as the TRAINED Militia.

    That is why Tench Coxe said: “Who are the militia? are they not ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American… THE UNLIMITED POWER OF THE SWORD IS NOT IN THE HANDS OF EITHER THE FEDERAL OR STATE GOVERNMENTS BUT, where I trust in God it will ever remain, IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE.”

    You say that those military vehicles are needed. That those “SWAT” teams are needed, etc. That would make you a *terrorist because the Constitution REQUIRES that all those who serve within our governments defend our individual rights, not destroy them; and those actions being done today is the EXACT opposite of what the US Constitution, our LEGITIMATE government requires. It might even make you (and this is NOT a personal comment, it is the generic “you”) a traitor to the USA, willing to be used against the American people.

    All LE’s are the replacements of the Militia (which was obviously a mistake or there would be no reason for a group such as OK) which means your first duties are those of the Militia AFTER those of your Oath which comes BEFORE the duties of the position you occupy. What are the Milita duties? They are pretty much the same as your Oat:

    The Militia has as its constitutionally assigned duties to:

    – Enforce the US Constitution and each state’s Constitution,
    – Enforce and keep the “Laws of the Union” (which is constitutional laws ONLY),
    – Protect the country against all enemies both domestic and foreign, and
    – “to suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions”.

    Yet our borders are being ignored – that IS every LE’s duty no matter what unlawful order they are given by their “superiors” – unless they are working with them to destroy the USA from within. Traitors run free. First Degree Murder is IGNORED because it is the presidential impersonator in the WH. Election fraud is rampant. LE’s run through neighborhoods as if we are an occupied nation.

    In the 60’s LE’s were still held accountable for their actions. I wrote an article on it after researching for about a year when all the changes came about, etc regarding Law Enforcement. When they became a militarized occupying force within the USA doing the bidding of those who are working to destroy our nation from within. Those laws, toys, etc that “made your job easier” is the destruction of our nation, is USING the LE’s to do it.

    “How ‘secure’ do our homes remain if police, armed with no warrant, can pound on doors at will and … forcibly enter?” Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg

    Some history:
    This “new” role (police) followed the law enforcement model developed in England. Our country had cut its ties with England to develop our own form of government with LESS governmental involvement in the affairs of the people. The “new” law enforcement was incorporating MORE government into the affairs of the people against the US Constitution as is done in England…

    The treatment of law enforcement in the courts shows that the law itself of crime control has hugely changed. Under the common law, there was no difference whatsoever between the privileges, immunities, and powers of constables and those of private citizens. Professional governmental law enforcement were literally and figuratively clothed in the same garments as everyone else and faced the same liabilities — civil and criminal — as everyone else under identical circumstances.
    When the USA started delegating their constitutionally required law enforcement duties to the professional governmental law enforcement, the laws were then relaxed to allow police to execute warrantless felony arrests upon information received from 3rd parties. Since the information received could not be confirmed, the Professional governmental law enforcement could no longer be required to be “right” all of the time, so the rule of strict liability for false arrest was lost.
    This has had the effect of depriving Americans of the certainty of guilt when warrantless arrests are committed against the populace. Plus judges now consider only if there was “reasonable grounds” to suspect a person, rather than “actual guilt” in committing a crime by those doing the (illegal here) warrantless and no knocks on peoples homes. This, combined with greater deference to the “state” in most law enforcement matters has reversed and gone against the supreme law of our land that they all are sworn to support and defend. It has reversed the original intent and purpose of American law enforcement that the state act against stern limitations and at its own peril, Americans now have fewer assurances that they are free from unreasonable arrests, and no way to recover the damages caused from false arrests under the “color of law” being perpetuated on the people.

    Officers who illegally eavesdrop, wiretap, or intrude upon privacy are now protected by a statutory (as well as case law) “good faith” defense. Private citizens who do so face up to five years in prison. The tendency of legislatures to equip police with ever-expanding rights, privileges and powers has, if anything, been strengthened rather than limited by the courts as the US Constitution requires of the judges within the courts – state and federal.

    This growing power differential goes against the principles of equal citizenship that is the bedrock of this nation. The great principle of the American Revolution was, after all, the doctrine of limited government. Advocates of the Bill of Rights saw the chief danger of government as the inherently aristocratic and disparate power of government authority, so wrote in immunities (natural rights) of the people from those in government overreaching themselves against the people. Constitutions – state and federal – specify the principle that all men are “equally free” and that all government is derived from the people.

    The modern disparity between the rights and powers of police and citizen shows up most in the modern law of “resisting arrest”. Any US citizen was privileged to resist arrest if probable cause for arrest did not exist or the arresting person could not produce a valid arrest warrant where one was needed as individual liberty is the bedrock of our constitutional republic. It wasn’t that long ago that the United States Supreme Court held that it was permissible (or defensible) to shoot an officer who displays a gun with intent to commit a warrantless arrest based on insufficient cause. Officers who executed an arrest without proper warrant were themselves considered trespassers, and the owners had a right to violently resist (or even assault and batter) an officer to evade such an unlawful arrest.

    Well into the twentieth century, violent resistance was considered a lawful remedy for Fourth Amendment violations. Even any third-party person who voluntarily assisted were lawfully able to forcibly liberate wrongly arrested persons from unlawful custody.

    By the 1980s many states had eliminated the common law right of resistance for the people in order to make it easier for professional governmental law enforcement to do the work of the state, plus criminalized the resisting of arrest or anything else by the general populace of any “officer” acting in his official capacity. Then they eliminated the requirement that an arresting officer present his warrant at the scene, PLUS drastically decreased the number and types of arrests for which a warrant is required. Basically destroying the basis of our legitimate government, and the level of protection given to us by, and put into place by the Framers into the US Constitution and state Constitutions.

    The right to resist unlawful arrest IS a constitutional one. It stems from the right of every person to his bodily integrity and liberty of movement, which are among the most fundamental of all natural rights. Substantive due process principles require that the government interfere with such a right ONLY to further a compelling state interest — and the power to arrest the citizenry unlawfully can hardly be characterized as a compelling state interest. The advent of governmental professional policing has endangered important rights, lives, and property of the American people. This” changing balance of power” between police and private citizens now revels itself by the unlawful power of modern police to easily use violence against the population, and to use unlawful arrest techniques with no consequences. (end of my research into the history of LE’s)

    As Dr Edwin Vieira states so well in his book “Constitutional “Homeland Security” Volume 1: the Nation in Arms”: “That means “that NONE of those tasks are assigned to the Army, to a Navy, to a (constitutionally unknown) National Guard, or least of all to any unnamed professional police, security, or intelligence agencies of the General Government or of any state or locality. Rather, the Constitution’s explicit emphasis on the Militia as the preeminent forces by politicians of a garrison, “national-security”, or police state…
    So those bound by Oath who “knowingly, with willful blindness, or in reckless disregard of the consequences of his/her action” votes for an unconstitutional act, bill, etc; when a “President or state governor refuses to veto it and instead executes it; or when a Judge, either of the supreme and inferior courts of the general government, or of any state knowingly declares such a statute valid and enforceable – each and every one of them violates his oath of office….”

    *28 C.F.R. Section 0.85 Terrorism is defined as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives”.

    If there were never intended to be action to defend the Constitution from those who are domestically attempting to destroy its power and authority, why would each Oath require it of those who take the Oaths? 

  26. @ Cal, Please give me a history lesson in this country that shows when the militia was running around this country protecting people from predators? I think you are way off base. Let me know how may Virginia Techs they went to. Did they ever have to get a warrant to arrest an Adam Lanza? Where there guys hiding in the bushes outside of the militia barracks waiting in ambush for any reason? Please enlighten me.
    I did take an oath to defend the constitution and I follow it. I am not sure what you mean about warrantless arrests. Is it your opinion that if someone is stomping the snot out of your grandmother your suggestion would be, get the militia then get a warrant and then stop the beating? Please give me one time where that would be practical?
    So your aware I have trained officers on every level. The rules of the game were not decided by military or law enforcement. But even in the early days of this nation you could protect yourself from violence. It is a sad fact today that people rely on others for that but is currently the state of the country. So you have this idea of what things should be. I get it. The fact is that it isn’t like that and these guys are trying to go home at the end of the day for doing a job that neither you or many other appreciate until something goes bump in the night.
    Again, I don’t like how some of this stuff in Pa has been handled but to think they should get a bunch of citizens to form a militia to hunt him down seems a little far fetched.
    Our system has some problems from top to bottom but show me a country that you want to model us after. Please fill in the blanks in your theoretical utopia. I am very disheartened over the state of our country and believe that the founding fathers would be saddened by the current state. I would bet that they wouldn’t start their complaint with the military or law enforcement of the country.

    (Associate Editor’s Note: Kurt, you don’t seem to have ANY grasp whatsoever on how a constitutional militia works, so let me enlighten you – the militia is EVERY able bodied citizen in America, a concept which has been lost in this country for far too long. In a constitutional republic, there is no need for police. In fact, the Sheriff is the only form of law enforcement that is actually constitutional, and the militia provides community defense. You mention Virginia Tech, yet ignorantly, you fail to realize that the police were nowhere to be found at that tragedy either. At least militias have the excuse of being eroded away for the past two centuries.

    I am more than happy to give regards to LEO’s that actually follow the constitution, but the fact of the matter is, most police officers do NOT stop crime, they clean up after the crime has already taken place. In fact, officers across the nation (most recently in New York) have argued that their job is not to serve and protect, but to administer policy and law after the fact of a crime, and the corrupt courts have ruled in their favor:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

    A grandmother being beaten to death has no guarantees that an LEO is going to save her, even if they are around to witness the event. THAT is reality. The old argument that “Sheep Dogs” are needed to protect the frightened public is a delusion that unconstitutional cops perpetuate to make themselves feel heroic, but deep down, they don’t believe it either. Again, for every constitutional officer out there, I have great respect. Their courage in going against the grain of their self serving culture must be commended. However, to the rest of the so called “thin blue line”, they are useless, or even worse, dangerous to the liberties of others. We don’t need them. They serve no purpose. Arm the citizenry and train them, and the police disappear, as they rightly should. —-Brandon Smith)

  27. Cal,I am a former LEO and worked in Monroe county,pa where all this is taking place. I have first hand knowledge of what is taking place and how the citizens are being treated.Have you personally spoken to anyone living in the area?How about spoken to any LEO’s from the area? This man is a cold blooded murderer who happens to be armed, roaming 8 square miles of thickwoods. Also he is very close to stricking distance with 2 PSP barracks, not to mention three local police departments. Your probably sitting behind a desk somewhere with no first hand knowledge.

    Associate Editor’s note: Mike Salerno, in previous posts you showed your total lack of respect for the Rights of the people of Monroe County. Now you tell us you are a former LEO who had to have sworn an Oath to the Constitution of the US, as well as Pennsylvania. Apparently you didn’t take your Oath seriously. With each passing post you make, you become less and less credible. Your attack on Cal is just a sign of your desperation.

    Shorty Dawkins

  28. Kurt and other scared sheeple willing to give up Freedom for supposed Safety,
    Why do Navy SEALS and other operators in actual combat zones have rules of engagement?
    Why do military men, for the most part, attempt to follow those rules? Even though the Enemy has NO rules.

    Many Brave, Good, Patriotic American Military fighting men have LOST their lives following rules of engagement in Hot Combat zones, such as Iraq and Afghanistan. America’s single event BIGGEST spec op loss of Lives is primarily BECAUSE Brave men followed rules of engagement and were in need of rescue as a result of OVERWHELMING enemy contact.

    It is called Honor. Courage. Commitment. Not in words but Actions and Choices made.

    If a Military man disregards rules of engagement he can be charged with murder.
    But by your logic posted above. The Constitution/Bill of Rights/Civil Rights, are all to be tossed because one Asshole had a grudge and shot a couple of civilian Police officers in Peace Time, State Side, USA. Just one single Asshole with a grudge in PA, USA.

    What about our Brothers dead in Afghanistan? SURROUNDED and Outnumbered tens of thousands to one.
    28 June 2005-Operation Red Wings
    6 August 2011- Extortion 17, Wardak province, Afghanistan.
    And others you will NEVER hear about. Never.
    Men of Honor. Courage. Commitment. Professionals to the end.

    These good men and MANY others DIED Defending the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
    Rights that you and others justify giving up because of One Asshole with a grudge, or other boggie man of the day.
    Eric Frien is not very dangerous compared to what real warriors face on a daily basis.
    If real warriors can follow rules of engagement in Combat zones like Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Mogadeshu.
    Then so can civillian Police officers STATE SIDE, USA. Enough said.

    Honor. Courage. Commitment. Not words. Actions and Choices.

    No I will not give up my Rights.
    No I would not be scared if I were in PA with, an Asshole with a grudge, that shot a couple of Police Officers.
    No I would NOT put up with Police wanna be warriors, in fresh black outfits, trashing my Rights and Property trying to find one Asshole who has likely left the immediate area.

    No I am not afraid of Eric Frein or other idiots. But of how Government uses a crises to walk on American values.
    I am concerned about TRAITORS, Treason, Bought off Politicians, Fearful and Fear Mongering Fed “wanna be” bad asses with an attitude and hair trigger. A current president that seems to want America destroyed and is provoking WW3 nuclear war with Russia. NWO compliance training given by Teachers in Amerikan schools to children is also of concern.

    Those are REAL concerns. As well as Open Borders to MILLIONS of poor people, ebola, TB, criminals, gangs, drug dealers, ALL ALLOWED TO ENTER OUR COUNTRY by the TRAITOR president.

    Understand any of this? Doubt it.
    If in PA, USA… I would cross Police barricade. Sleep soundly in my bed.
    I would Not Allow Police to keep me from my Home, Property.
    There is a Constitution. Bill of Rights. Shall Not Be Infringed.
    If in New Orleans during Katrina, when Police and Blackwater security contractors confiscated civilians guns.
    Then I would not be writing this. Because I would NOT have given up my gun and likely would have been KIA.

  29. @ Willie G. Clearly you have never ran at gunfire. Some of us have. Sheeple, yea right. You resort to name calling because we disagree? BTW cops go to jail all the time for mistakes made under stress. One example was the transit cop that in Ma. that accidentally shot the person while trying to deploy a CED (TASER) I am a huge supporter of people being able to carry and protect themselves and I don’t believe cops will be there on time most of the time. What is your solution for those who chant or don’t want to carry. Let them die? Are all the other gun owners going to protect them? Who is doing all that training? The need for police is one that has been demonstrated by people who don’t, won’t or can’t help themselves. I for one don’t need it and I do not in any way believe that police have all the answer or abilities. I will tell you that there is a reason that guys like Lt. Col Grossman call them the sheepdogs of society. It shouldn’t be like that in a perfect USA but give me an example anywhere that the citizenry is a militia? Not even in our history has that been true. Certain people would form a posse and do it but not all.
    The Sherrif’s in this country are the only “cops” that are directly responsible to the people. I suppose that is wrong also. Again please give me a better example in the world

  30. shorty, can cal not speak for himself? Desperation?? Really? I joined Oathkeepers believing this was a credible organization, but over the months the more articles I read posted by oath keepers and their affiliates the more I believe this to be not true. If you would really like to discuss the events taking place in Monroe county, please send me an email and we can talk. I’ll even give you a phone number to call and speak with me personally.

  31. Thank you for standing up for me, Brandon, Shorty, and Willie G..
    @ Kurt and Mike

    1) “Please give me a history lesson in this country that shows when the militia was running around this country protecting people from predators”

    EVERY person within the USA was/is the Militia, they just need training and practice now.

    There was no need for “militia” running around then, they were already trained and ready to respond when needed. They were already there. They did not show up AFTER the fact, or ignore crimes violent or otherwise being perpetrated near them. They were “called out” when a Sheriff needed extras, or when the state needed defending, or when the nation needed defending.

    Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers #28: “The militia is a voluntary force not associated or under the control of the States except when called out; [when called into actual service] a permanent or long standing force would be entirely different in make-up and call.”

    Richard Henry Lee: “Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.”

    Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers #28: “The militia is a voluntary force not associated or under the control of the States except when called out.”

    I honor and will stand with any CONSTITUTIONAL LE WHO KEEPS THEIR OATH, or even who sees the light and changes to keep the oath, most citizens will.

    But we now have a dumbed down bunch of bullies, actually government gangs masquerading as LE’s enforcing “color of law” (PRETEND laws), and you should be ashamed to defend some of their actions as a person who swore the Oath, then swore to KEEP it. Those same thugs, gangs now have military “toys” which are NOT lawful in any way here in America and use them AGAINST the people. It would be different if they were using them FOR the people as is their sworn duty (Here are a few
    places those “toys” ARE/WERE allowed – China, Stalinist Russian, Nazi Germany, etc) .

    YOU, as an LE or ex LE are being used against your nation – willingly, knowingly, or not. This is what ALWAYS happens when the LE’s, and a perpetual military is ran by those who serve within government – they become the fodder for their takeover and destruction of the nation they are in. Yes, you are/or will be the fodder for their power hungry destruction of the USA. They care nothing for you except that you will follow their orders no mater what they are. Look at what has happened already to others by them when they no longer need them – and without a trial.

    So the questions you must ask yourself, IS that what YOU want for nation? Do you want to be ordered out to kill your friends and neighbors, or to be used to murder a cop who chose to support this nation, keep their Oath? These things are already happening and those are real choices you will make some day if not already faced with them. They cannot have those serving them who will not blindly follow their orders.

    If not, and this will take more bravery and honor, and morals then you may be able to pull up – and I actually do understand that, because it is most difficult to go against those who you
    see as friends, those who “have your back” KEEP YOUR OATH.

    But do they (friends ahve your back)? If they will ostracize you, hurt you, put you into dangerous places with no back-up, maybe even assist in YOUR suicide BECAUSE you keep your Oath – are they your friends? Do they have your back?

    If you do not want to do the job you swore and gave YOUR personal guarantee to do as constitutionally assigned, you are in the wrong position. This country is under the US Constitution, and if YOU cannot keep your Oath – which is the ONLY lawful authority you have, please get another job.

    You see, we need Americans with heart, honor, bravery, and morals. We are under attack by traitors within, and they ARE using our LE’s against us, and that will, in the long run, cost those who do not stand for their nation.

    Please read the US Constitution, read some of Dr. Vieira’s books, go listen to cspoa.org. You see, you are needed here, in this nation, as an American, not as some power hungry piece of scums tool and fodder to be used AGAINST our nation.

    Go read Edwin Vieira’s “Dare Call It Treason”, I believe there is a link here for a free read of part of it. It will be enough for you to realize just what treason is here in the USA and who it is being perpetrated against and BY whom.

  32. Government in USA is controlled by bought off TRAITORS.
    ALL USA Media is controlled by DOD, Corporations, all scripted to stay on message.
    IRS and Houston Tx politicians trying to shut down free exchange of ides in Church.
    IRS used to TARGET anyone not a Leftist, NWO, Communist.

    President conducting bio-warfare with Immigrants and Allowing Ebola to enter USA,
    President building ARMY of Immigrants to fight Americans in civil war.
    President is trying to Instigate WW3 with the Russians.
    China will join in with Russia for that FIRST strike against USA.

    One solitary Jack Ass in PA causes people to come under government Tyrants on a vendetta.

    USA and World economy an verge of TOTAL collapse.
    Drought in USA causing shortage of water and affecting crops.

    And people here at OK bickering as children.

    Wish the best to all of you.
    bicker on as America is crumbling from within.
    TREASON by Politicians and Media is the problem. Not Each Other.

  33. @ Cal
    paragraph 3 NO not every american was. People were allowed not to fight if they didn’t want to.
    Paragraph 4. So the Sherrif had to call them. That would be practical in todays world wouldn’t it? No standing militia because everyone was? So all should have a long gun with them today to take out a killer?
    P4 So what. I love the writings of most of the founding fathers but the writings and opinions have never all become the law of the land. If so please tell me where
    P5 R H Lee, Again when was this the law of the land
    P8 I never defended anyone!!! I simply explained why teams and guys that I know and have worked with use the tools they do. The AR 15 is way more accurate in the hands of a shooter than a pistol. period. If you were going into a gun fight have a rifle. If you can’t get the idea that if your son needed a rescue and the LEO’s had a used and free armored vehicle that would be bad. How many of the guys you write about in P8 are you willing to let die instead of having a free vehicle that would protect them? I was pointing out how they do use them for good.
    P10 In everything I do I teach and train for the constitution of this country. I have told hundreds of LEO’s that if your agency is going to go door to door to take away rights (like 2nd amendment) to be sick that day and stand with the people.
    P11- to the end. Clearly I have responded to all of this because I truly believe that you have read my position from a malice point of view. I take my job, oath, and reason for being very seriously. I am no ones lackey. Never have been, never will be. I am well aware of what our founder wanted and am saddened by what ours country has become. I will never give up on it! I had dozens of people ready to go stand with the LEO’s and citizens in Ct for the gun confiscation. I was and am simply trying to get the point across that not all armored vehicle and guys with AR’s are there to harm the public or violate the principals of this once great nation. Most of the guys I know are ready to walk out at any time. The thing is Pa is both sad and ugly. I think that if there were militia’s in your town and one of your guys got shot for just being a part of it you would want justice or revenge. Maybe not.
    As I said in every article I wrote I have a lot of issues with some of the things but understand others.
    Be well

  34. I live in PA not far from the area that’s been crawling with LE. I find this a smack in the face when it comes to our constitutional rights. As far as a survey on The People here in Pa that want an LE department, sorry but I don’t agree with you on that percentage that are Wanting babysitters for a cleanup crew.
    I know of full towns that are ready and trained to protect their own towns as a militia would. They want nothing to do with the LE and have also made this known to their local departments.
    As far as LE carrying AR’s only because that penetrates someone’s Armour, I say BS to that one. An AR is used by the LE because you can hit most anything your aiming at with 50 rounds in that weapon. As for LE being trained on a range, even a 70 yro grandma could hit the intended target even if she never shot a gun in her life before. That’s how easy it is to GET a bullet in your target from an AR. That’s why they’re carried and they’re getting the M-16 yet for free. The MRAPS are another BS. They’re being used for serving warrents along with just a little domestic case as another example. They don’t belong on the streets of the USA.
    Someone spoke of Tom Wise as a cop hater from the far left. You couldn’t be further from the truth when it comes to this man. I personally know this man, whom I only met through the OK and would trust this man with my back. I have plenty of friends that are active/retired LE and Mil, so there isn’t any hate mongering going on here in PA when it comes to the LE. They’ve, meaning the gov, state and LE that choose of their own free will to ignore the Oath they’ve taken are being used as Patsy’s but will never admit that.
    The militia has always been alive in this state and always will be a Huge Presense forever. We don’t need the LE operations nor the expense of having those departments in our state. The Sheriff Department is the Top PO of the land and that also will never change. If a person decides to take a position as a LE, than they also need to be prepared to not come home from a shift perhaps one day. It’s part of the job just as other job descriptions have their pitfalls.
    And to whomever it was that stated they lived n Monroe and were an LE, sir, I’ve contact with others that live in the area, prepared to protect their own and their neighbors. So please back up when you state we need the LE due to this so called Frein guy. He’s not shooting at civilians so why would civilians want the LE invading their private space? Other Han the few white collar workers that only know that food comes from a grocery store and call the LE when they Hear a Bump in the night! No sir, your way wrong to strategy that we the people want this crap going on up there which now seems to be heading south according to the last report I listened to. This type of Presense, taking away God given rights such as hunting and closing down schools due to this guy are insanity and taking away individual rights!!
    The LE need to go home, stop playing with all the toys they were vividness free and hand over the job of finding this man to the real experts. And that would be the veterans! At least we wouldn’t have wasted all these millions of tax dollars that have been already spent for nothing!
    It’s only a handful here in Pa that MSM along with the LE broadcasts have made afraid. Like I stated earlier, white collar workers that haven’t a clue if the PC were to crash or the grid go down, what they would do to even feed themselves. And that would be their own faults also in that scenario. Perhaps though, one of those nice militia folks that are neighbors would have some pity on them and help them out to survive. LE useless and they’ve shown that by reporting a sighting by one of their own twice now but yet still couldn’t catch him!? BS!!
    What about the poor guy that walks to work and has been harassed multiple times by the LE with actually being roughed up one of those times by an LE?? He now wears one of those reflective vests that the state road crew wear so the LE will leave him alone. Such BS coming from a so called LE making a statement like that on here. And I only jumped on here to check this report wrote about this Frein guy. I’m an oathkeeper, just not on the forums any longer because the truth hurts some to hear it. But so be it, I write the truth of a matter here again rebuttal long another PA resident calling him out stating BS on what you are stating here.

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